Commodus? As, with Zeus holding thunderbolt reverse

[TenthGen]

Hi everybody,

I have a coin from an uncleaned lot that I can't quite ID. To me the portrait looks like Commodus, and I was just about ready to declare it a sestertius with an IOVI IVVENI... reverse when I weighed it and realized it only weighed 9.32 grams. Now I am trying to figure out which As it is. I can't find an As with that reverse, and as such it isn't particularly clear in the first place.

Weight: 9.32 grams
Max Width: 25 mm

Obverse: Difficult to determine text. Probably laureate.
Reverse: Appears to be a male figure holding a scepter and thunderbolt. I can't distinguish an eagle or anything clearly at the figure's feet. The text isn't immediately clear to me either starting from the lower left I can maybe make out -OVNV-NI- or perhaps -OVIIV-. What is clear is that the coin has the S-C marking.


Thanks for your help!

[Pekka K]

What say: RIC III Commodus 535 ?

http://numismatics.org/ocre/id/ric.3.com.535

Pekka K

[TenthGen]

Ah, I think that is it! Brilliant as always, Pekka.

One thing I'll note is that mine would likely be 535 var. In fact, the other two examples I can find on acsearch are also described as 535 var. I think the sestertius has the eagle at the feet, but the As version seems to often not include it, if at all.

Thanks again!

[curtislclay]

Does this As really occur without the eagle on the ground before Jupiter?

I have a specimen with clear eagle. Hard to tell on yours, because of wear and flan crack. Can you show us the two examples you found on acsearch?

BM 623 claims to be a sestertius without eagle, but unfortunately it is not illustrated and I don't find this specimen in their online collection.

Another question: does this middle bronze type really include IMP VIII in the rev. legend, as reported by Cohen 254 (As, in Paris) and 255 (dupondius, reported by Gnecchi)? I doubt it, because the rule seems to be that IMP VIII was indeed included in the rev. legend of the five sestertius types of this issue, but omitted from the legend of the five corresponding middle bronze types. On my specimen one can't be sure, because after IOVI IVVENI P M the legend is off flan and illegible. I wonder if the acsearch specimens will omit or include IMP VIII.

[shanxi]

BM 623 claims to be a sestertius without eagle, but unfortunately it is not illustrated and I don't find this specimen in their online collection.

here:
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/C_R-15029

[curtislclay]

Thanks, Ralf!

So the sestertius without eagle is firmly attested.

[TenthGen]

Thank you for your replies!  Here are the two examples of the As without the eagle from ACSearch:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3467064

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=4785433

Both of these claim to be 535 var, and they do not seem to have IMP VIII. They appear to go from TR P XIIII straight to COS. If you have an acsearch account, you may be able to get higher res photos than what I can see on the publicly available page.

_{(Edited to update the IMP VIII portion)}

[curtislclay]

Many thanks for showing the pictures!

So despite my doubts, the variant without eagle does occur on both sestertii and asses of this type.

But I will continue to assume that, until proven otherwise, all five middle bronze types of this issue omitted IMP VIII from their rev. legends, whereas the five sestertius types all included it.

I've just noticed that the IOVI IVVENI type without eagle also occurs on denarii, as already observed by Cohen 259: Jupiter standing left, "usually with an eagle at his feet." I even have such a denarius without eagle in my collection, acquired in May 2007.

[curtislclay]

Moderator,

I think this thread might better be moved to Roman Coins.