2 unknown coins, where to start?

[Jochen]

Dear friends!

Yesterday I got some small coins from a friend. Unfortunately, these two coins resist determination. I consider them to be related to each other.

First coin:
AR - 11.40x8.23mm, 0.32g
The first,one, better preserved, shows on the obverse(?) a horseman with waving Chlamys and spear riding to the right. The reverse(?) shows a legend in 3 lines: "L P b H O / N K I H K(?) H / R I".   I do not know wether it is Latin or Greek or something other.

The second one looks similar. However, the letters in the legend are not recognisable here.

I don't know where to start looking. Possibly ancient Bulgarian??

Any answer highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance
Jochen

Sorry, can't add pics!

[shanxi]

Your descriptions sounds a bit like a russian Denga:

Just as an example, your legend does not fit:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1685943

[Jochen]

Hi Ralf!

Thank you for your suggestion. Without  a pic it is an incredible good choice. I hope that Sorin will fix the error with my pics. Then you can see it.

Jochen

[Dominic T]

I'm pretty sure shanxi could identify a coin with his two eyes shut only by using his fingertips...
DT

[Jochen]

Because I can't add pics of my coins I have here the link to the 1st coin https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=172722

shanxi was right. The question is when was it struck. Because of the small size I think it was the late time of this currency before the reform in 1535.

Jochen

[Sorin Teodor]

I hope that Sorin will fix the error with my pics. Then you can see it.

Works now!

[Waldemar S]

1- I would befor the kopeck Mikhail Fyodorovich 1613-1645 . Maybe this catalog will let you match exactly.
 http://silver-copeck.ru/211.html

regarts

[Jochen]

Hi Waldemar!

Yes I think you are right with kopeck. Is it not so that coins with a spear are a kopeck and only coins with a sabre are dengas?
But I think I now can read in the lowest line of the upper coin PETR, and then it should be a kopeck of Peter the Great. Do you agree?

AAnd thank you for the link!

Best regard
Jochen

[Waldemar S]

Hi Jachen

I was just trying to help you with the id., but I see that I am too short on the topic of early Russia, I will ask colleagues on Polish forums who are stronger in the topic.
 I noticed here a considerable weight difference of your kopeck in comparison with others, which would suggest a dynega again?
but one I don't know with a spear rider.
ps. usually all rossia in the last line
 
regards Waldemar

[Waldemar S]

Hi Jochen

You have a lot of luck buddy and persistence in pursuing her id.
for this you have a reward:
it is a kopeck of Peter I, the year of issue 1698, the Moscow Mint, Staryj dienienyj manor, below I give the full legend, I marked the letters invisible on the coin in red. -I did not work with the color, so I separated those letters that did not fit on the coin
ЦРЬ И В/ЕЛ/ИКIИ КН/ЯЗЬ/ ПЁТ/Р АЛЕКСЕЕВИЧЬ ВСЕЯ РОССIИ/

(CAR AND GREAT PRINCE PIOTR ALEKSIEJEWICZ ALL RUSSIA)

No.1618 in the Kleszczinow / Griszyn catalog, extremely rare - rarity 8.
http://silver-copeck.ru/8013/1698.html
third from the left

Pozdrawiam Waldemar

[Waldemar S]

Hi Jochen
Sorry - Correction -but my specialists on Tsarist Russia came to a consensus that this kopeck is closer to No. 1623 but the rarity still remains R8 .
Pozdrawiam Waldemar

ps. Thank you someone for cleaning up.