ROMAN REPUBLICAN LEGIONARY SILVER DENARIUS MARK ANTONY 32-31 B.C

[Vincent W]

Bought this ROMAN REPUBLICAN LEGIONARY SILVER DENARIUS MARK ANTONY 32-31 B.C. coin from spantiquities.
When it arrived i have suspicions about it's authenticity. I checked to see whether the seller was listed as selling fake coins and lo and behold he was. (Svilen Stoyanov)

Can anyone confirm my suspicions or am i completely wrong and it's genuine.

[Jay GT4]

Looks fine to me from the picture

[Ken W2]

Hello Vincent: Can you provide the diameter, weight, and die alignment ?  Going from these photos only, it looks OK to me.  First, logically, why would someone fake a "Legionary" denarius on which you cannot even tell which Legion is represented.  There are few areas to question, e.g. the entirely closed "P" on the obverse and the fully visible AVG but not a trace of ANT.  Also, I cannot see any trace of the dotted border on the reverse, but perhaps it is a small flan. Finally, and no offense intended, but are you sure you didn't mismatch obverse and reverse from different coins.  Perhaps it is just the shadows, but to me the reverse is more regularly round than the reverse.
All that said, from the photos alone it looks OK to me.     

[Ken W2]

I meant the reverse appears more regularly round than the obverse.

[Vincent W]

Thanks to you both for your replies.

The coin weighs 3gms and diameter 19mm, but that does vary depending on the sides you measure (i have a digital caliper).

I was suspicious about the bird having no perch and the pole the bird sits on should dotted. As Ken said both the P.C and AVC
look a little too neat also.

[Din X]

You are right is a very bad and obvious fake.
The style is wrong, the wear is artificial.
The seller has always many Roman and Greek fakes from different emperors/rulers and from different times and location and all from the same style and with same artificial wear and often strange planchets.
The seller has some cheap authentic coins too like many fake sellers, who mix authentic coins in to make the fakes look more reliable.

I have some of his fakes too in my fake collection.
To have many fakes will help you in detecthing fake if you know how to use them, which generally means comparing them in hand (magnification, weight, edge, parina, wear, encrustration, surface) with authentic coins and searching for differences.
If you know already fakes from this artist, workshop etc, you will know what is wrong with them and what to look for.
 

[Jay GT4]

I'm pretty embarassed now.  After reading Din's reply I do see the wrong style and other issues with the coin.  I should really look at something more closely before offering an opinion!  As always, thanks Din!

[Vincent W]

Thanks Din for your very knowledge input. I've only been collecting for around six months but it's people like you that minimize
the risk of wasting money and help people like me, learn and enjoy this hobby. Thanks also to Jay and Ken. It's a great forum.

[Ken W2]

Welcome to the hobby and the Forvum Vincent.  You'll learn a lot here.  I learned about a resource I was unaware of until today--Schaefer's die studies (see Brutus-Libertas thread).  I of course will defer to expert collectors and dealers about your coin.  As noted, there are style and wear questions, but sometimes those kind of variations are seen and logically would be seen in an issue as voluminous as the MAL issue-- perhaps the largest silver issue in ancient times.  I'm not embarassed to be wrong-- being wrong is how we learn sometimes (not picking on you Jay!).  Indeed, there may be some fakes in my collection of which I'm unaware and I would welcome any member of the Forvm pointing them out at any time.   

[Dominic T]

I don’t see him on the NFSL ?
DT

[Serendipity]

I don’t see him on the NFSL ?
DT

I was puzzled by that too until I realised that Vincent is referring to Spantiquities (Svilen Stoyanov), the seller on eBay, being listed as a seller of fakes on AncientArtifacts rather than on the NFSL. I've checked the seller's other ancient coins which confirms Din's comments that the "seller has some cheap authentic coins too like many fake sellers, who mix authentic coins in to make the fakes look more reliable." The only antidote to this chicanery is to buy authentic coins from a reputable dealer such as the FORVM. Another problem I face are authentic coins misattributed by other dealers whether intentional or unintentional I don’t know.

[Vincent W]

This is the reply i got from Spantiquities when i gave my reasons for a refund.


'Hi this coin isn't a fake. If it was, inevitably there would have remained traces of casting. Mark Antony had 23 legions and the coin of each one was struck slightly differently, hence the difference you mentioned. Either way no problem, just wanted to let you know'

Regards
Vincent

[Jay GT4]

Send it back

[Vincent W]

Hi Jay,

Just started the process. Managed to get free return postage.

Regards
Vincent

[Din X]

Some of his fakes, all with same crude style and artificial wear.
Of course no authentic coins are know of any of these dies and if we consider the high number of coin from different dies he is selling this is completely impossible.
And of course he always has several coins from the same dies.

[Din X]

More

[Din X]

Look for the EYES, alle the same crude strange style !!!

[Vincent W]

I realise now how important it is to buy from a reputable source and that's when the hobby gets expensive. Those examples you've given Din are worth keeping for future referencing.

[Joe Sermarini]

Fake coin reports, please.  (BTW, when I type that, anyone can do the reports. We probably need them for all the fakes on this page. And if you do 25 or more fake coin reports in a month, let me know at the end of the month and I will put $2 FORVM dollars per report on your account. If you do these early, I will let you add them to your April count.)

[Joe Sermarini]

I don’t see him on the NFSL ?
DT

I was puzzled by that too until I realised that Vincent is referring to Spantiquities (Svilen Stoyanov), the seller on eBay, being listed as a seller of fakes on AncientArtifacts rather than on the NFSL. I've checked the seller's other ancient coins which confirms Din's comments that the "seller has some cheap authentic coins too like many fake sellers, who mix authentic coins in to make the fakes look more reliable." The only antidote to this chicanery is to buy authentic coins from a reputable dealer such as the FORVM. Another problem I face are authentic coins misattributed by other dealers whether intentional or unintentional I don’t know.

We do NOT name seller here unless they are on the NFSL or are being nominated for the NFSL. If this is a seller of fakes, nominate them. Do NOT name sellers here unless they are on the NFSL or you are nominating them for the NFSL.