GAUL, Massalia, Campanian Imitation?

[Molinari]

This coin is interesting.  It isn't like any of the other Massalia bronzes I've seen and it reminds me of Campanian man-faced bull issues, in which the reverse shows a man-faced bull standing right on single line, head facing.  The other Massalian bronzes with bulls all seem to have the bull butting.

Perhaps there is a Celtic coin expert who could help me.  Is there a chance this coin is imitating the man-faced bull types from Campania?  As you can see, the face is obscured so I can't tell, and I haven't found another example of this exact type.  I also know essentially nothing about Celtic coinage.

(On a side note, I spoke with Chris Rudd not too long ago and he said he wasn't aware of any Celtic coinage that has man-faced bull iconography)

Gaul. Massalia. Light bronze ''au Taureau'', c. 121-49, K / L (Ae - 1,76g - 6h). BN 1940-1942, Dep. 67/3.

[Molinari]

A similar piece from the BnF, also unclear (but maybe it's an MFB head in profile to right?).  See the face?

[crispina]

Hi, Nick!  It's your friend with the wonderful taste in music!   

Listen, I don't know anything about Celtic coins, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone in thinking that Massalia may have issued MFB coinage.  Somebody at the American Numismatic Society thinks so, too.

Here is a catalog record from the ANS:

http://numismatics.org/collection/1978.64.5

Unfortunately no photograph, and it's a silver didrachm as opposed to a bronze, but I just wanted to bring it to your attention, in case it is of interest.

[Molinari]

That's very interesting (and exciting!), and brings the count up to 32 mints issuing man-faced bulls in silver!  It's really catching up with the bronze.   I'll also have to update my map to include Massalia.

The issue you pointed out makes it more likely that the bronze coin imitates a man-faced bull type!  Now I just have to track down a picture of the didrachm.

Thanks so much for your contribution!

Nick

PS: If anyone has the plate for this I'd really appreciate a scan!

[Molinari]

A third example showing the head but I'm still uncertain.  

[Molinari]

A very clear reverse and...not a man-faced bull, so doubtful the others are

[Taras]

Hi, Nick!  It's your friend with the wonderful taste in music!  

Listen, I don't know anything about Celtic coins, but I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone in thinking that Massalia may have issued MFB coinage.  Somebody at the American Numismatic Society thinks so, too.

Here is a catalog record from the ANS:

http://numismatics.org/collection/1978.64.5

Unfortunately no photograph, and it's a silver didrachm as opposed to a bronze, but I just wanted to bring it to your attention, in case it is of interest.

I'd be very curious to see that coin. I saw many Celtic manfaced horses, but never saw a Celtic MFB crowned by nike. Maybe the online listing by ANS for that piece is wrong, in fact the reference reported (SNGANS 1.353) refers to a coin from Neapolis (a genuine not imitative didrachm), while the coin listed on the site weights 3,4g (it is a drachm, listed as didrachm). Probably the online listing is still in progress, and it is possible they made confusion.
I would love to be the one wrong, and that there was really a Celtic MFB.
Bye
Nico

[Molinari]

I'm going to write to the ANS and seek clarification.

[Molinari]

I'd be very curious to see that coin. I saw many Celtic manfaced horses, but never saw a Celtic MFB crowned by nike. Maybe the online listing by ANS for that piece is wrong, in fact the reference reported (SNGANS 1.353) refers to a coin from Neapolis (a genuine not imitative didrachm), while the coin listed on the site weights 3,4g (it is a drachm, listed as didrachm). Probably the online listing is still in progress, and it is possible they made confusion.
I would love to be the one wrong, and that there was really a Celtic MFB.
Bye
Nico

I heard back from Dr. van Alfen and you were right, Nico, it was a cataloging error!  The coin in question has a regular lion reverse.

Looks like I'll have to re-update my map.