Ptolemy bronze coin - identification would be appreciated.

[coldavo]

Hi All,

I have an AE23 which I tentatively identified as Ptolemy III.
I'm not sure now as I can't place the item to the left of the eagle - it looks more like a palm branch than a club?
Also I can't place the letters between the legs and,as the corrosion is fairly bad and it is hard to see, there is a slight possibility of a palm branch over the back of the left shoulder (it might just be the way that the corrosion went).
Any help would be most appreciated.
All the best,
Col

[PtolemAE]

Hi All,

I have an AE23 which I tentatively identified as Ptolemy III.
I'm not sure now as I can't place the item to the left of the eagle - it looks more like a palm branch than a club?
Also I can't place the letters between the legs and,as the corrosion is fairly bad and it is hard to see, there is a slight possibility of a palm branch over the back of the left shoulder (it might just be the way that the corrosion went).
Any help would be most appreciated.
All the best,
Col

Svoronos 1397

Ptolemy VI - possibly from Cyprus mint ca. 170-168BC

Letters in the eagle's legs are EYL

Object next to the eagle (at left) is a lotus blossum

Object next to the eagle's right shoulder is an anchor countermark.

Note on this coin the word 'PTOLEMAIOY' (inscription at left on reverse) has been obliterated on the die.  This coin also has the Seleukid anchor countermark to the right of the eagle.

You can see one almost identical to this, but more clear, at www.ptolemybronze.com (go to the 'denomination series' page). 

These are interesting coins that seem to tell a story of the invasion of Cyprus by Antiochos IV in 168BC.  It is thought he took coins and possibly dies back to Syria after the failed occupation and may have struck coins with the 'PTOLEMAIOY' defaced from the altered dies (either on Cyprus or back at home) and applied the anchor (Seleukid) countermark for local circulation back home in 'Syria'.  Some of these have the countermark (some with the countermark right on top of the lotus blossom at left instead of in the open field at right), others have no countermark.  Some have the obliterated legend, others don't.  Your coin appears to have both and that seems to make it both a Ptolemaic coin and a Seleukid coin all wrapped up in one.
 
There have been a few examples of some larger size coins of similar design types also with the Seleukid countermark - rare.  One of the big ones (ca 90gm)

PtolemAE

[coldavo]

Hi PtolemAE,

I am very pleased with the identification.

I had looked at Ptolemybronze.com (and everwhere else I could think of) but didn't pick up on it. It is amazing how easy it is when someone tells you exactly where to look.

As mentioned - I am VERY pleased with the information as I have a definate soft spot for any coins, like this one, with such an interesting story. And it is a marvelous story - even the EYL letters give me a eunuch regent - and you don't get many of those.  This one will now regularly switch between my 'Coins of the Bible' and my 'Coins with a Story". The only problem is that now I have to get a Ptolemy III.

Once again PtolemAe thank you very much for the help.

All the best,
Col

[PtolemAE]

Hi PtolemAE,

I am very pleased with the identification.

I had looked at Ptolemybronze.com (and everwhere else I could think of) but didn't pick up on it. It is amazing how easy it is when someone tells you exactly where to look.

As mentioned - I am VERY pleased with the information as I have a definate soft spot for any coins, like this one, with such an interesting story. And it is a marvelous story - even the EYL letters give me a eunuch regent - and you don't get many of those.  This one will now regularly switch between my 'Coins of the Bible' and my 'Coins with a Story". The only problem is that now I have to get a Ptolemy III.

Once again PtolemAe thank you very much for the help.

All the best,
Col

The meaning of the EYL letters is unknown.  It's an interesting coincidence that they happen to match the letters of a known person's name, but hard to tell if there's anything more we can make of it.  Letters in the eagle's legs of many other Ptolemaic bronzes are not associated with any particular person's name.  It might have something to do with EULAIOS, but it may well not.

There are some very closely related types that have the EYL and some that don't.

Some Cyprus collector specialists tell me the ones *with* EYL are not from Cyprus at all, rather from Alexandria.

It's an area where we can hope future research will make things more clear. 

PtolemAE

[PtolemAE]

Hi PtolemAE,

I am very pleased with the identification.

I had looked at Ptolemybronze.com (and everwhere else I could think of) but didn't pick up on it. It is amazing how easy it is when someone tells you exactly where to look.

As mentioned - I am VERY pleased with the information as I have a definate soft spot for any coins, like this one, with such an interesting story. And it is a marvelous story - even the EYL letters give me a eunuch regent - and you don't get many of those.  This one will now regularly switch between my 'Coins of the Bible' and my 'Coins with a Story". The only problem is that now I have to get a Ptolemy III.

Once again PtolemAe thank you very much for the help.

All the best,
Col

Glad you liked the answers. 

The meaning of the EYL letters is unknown.  It's an interesting coincidence that they happen to match the letters of a historical person's name, but hard to tell if that's what we should make of it.  Letters in the eagle's legs of many other Ptolemaic bronzes are usually not associated with any particular person's name.  It might have something to do with EULAIOS, but it may well not.

There are also some very closely related, parallel, types that have the EYL and some that don't.

Some Cyprus collector specialists tell me the ones *with* EYL are not from Cyprus at all, rather from Alexandria.  Still a bit murky.

It's an area where we can hope future research will make things more clear. 

You can easily pick up nice Ptolemy III bronzes from among the good selection right here in Forum's catalog. 

PtolemAE