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Author Topic: Spes OD  (Read 2755 times)

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virtvsprobi

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Spes OD
« on: July 17, 2006, 01:26:46 pm »


I've been hunting for a Spes from Lugdunum for quite a while.
There's hope for my collection yet, although I'm sure there's muttering from Monmouthshire about this. ;D

RIC 99; Bastien 324. Bust type C. Denomination: Antoninianus.


OBV.: IMP C M AVR PROBVS AVG
Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right, seen from back.

REV.: SPES PROBI AVG

Spes walking left, holding flower and raising robe.

Mintmark: // III

G/<  :Acircle:

Offline Jochen

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2006, 02:40:11 pm »
It looks like just minted! A hoard coin?

Offline Pscipio

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2006, 03:05:28 pm »
Very nice coin, G/<, especially the portrait!

Lars
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Offline slokind

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2006, 03:16:54 pm »
Does any source comment on Probus' appropriation of Spes and Virtus (and other personified goods?) to himself?  Was he the first?  Only one?  It is really not the same as Spes Augusti or Virtus Augusti.  Is it?  I hope it's not too dumb a question.  Pat L.

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2006, 03:40:48 pm »
<GRUMBLE. GRUMBLE> it was in my basket <GRUMBLE. GRUMBLE> someone bought it before I could check out <GRUMBLE. GRUMBLE>.

G/<,
Very nice coin. One I would be happy to own myself and would have filled a nice gap too. Could have been in a better but it could have been in a far worse one too.

Regards,
The not bitter and twisted,
Martin

Offline Rupert

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2006, 04:37:32 pm »
Does any source comment on Probus' appropriation of Spes and Virtus (and other personified goods?) to himself?  Was he the first?  Only one?  It is really not the same as Spes Augusti or Virtus Augusti.  Is it?  I hope it's not too dumb a question.  Pat L.

Not at all dumb, IMHO (just to help you in your fishing for compliments ;)). It's certainly a special emphasis on the name of the emperor. My short brainstorming yields VICTOR IUST AUG for Pescennius, Septimius and Domna, VICTOR SEVER AUG for Septimius, VICTOR ANTONINI AUG and SALUS ANTONINI AUG for Elagabal, a SALUS POSTUMI AUG gold coin and one coin I even have, though not in good condition, VICTORIA GORDIANI AUG.

Rupert

BTW Martin: Yes, if I were focussed on this subject, I'd be grumbling too. Thank God I'm out of focus. ;)
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virtvsprobi

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2006, 05:12:52 pm »
Does any source comment on Probus' appropriation of Spes and Virtus (and other personified goods?) to himself?  Was he the first?  Only one?  It is really not the same as Spes Augusti or Virtus Augusti.  Is it?  I hope it's not too dumb a question.

The strong emphasis on the imperial "me" is somewhat of a novelty with Probus. Of course the phenomenon of personalizing the imperial virtues appears with some strenght under Gallienus, but it was never as insistent or complex as with Probus. I think there's a paper by H.-G. Pflaum where he discusses this, but I haven't come across it yet.

Probus adopted the Nostri of Tetrici and Claudius II, and then went on a a name insertion rampage in later issues.

VICTORIA PROBI AVG
VIRTVS PROBI AVG
ADVENTVS PROBI AVG
COMITI PROBI AVG
IOVI CONS PROB AVG
PROV PROBI AVG NOSTRI
SPES PROBI AVG
SISCIA PROBI AVG
SOL COMES PROBI AVG
VOTIS X PROBI AVG ET XX

The personalization of Spes is unique, I think.

Unlike the modest Tacitus, Florian pre-dated Probus with VIRTVS FLORIANI...





G/<  :sunburst:

virtvsprobi

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2006, 05:34:10 pm »
And if we want a personalization to beat all personalizations:

ORIENS CARI AVG



G/<

Offline Rupert

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2006, 05:57:11 pm »
Wow, I hadn't known that one...

Rupert
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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2006, 06:22:39 pm »
Was Vespasian at Tarraco the first, denarius with VICTORIA IMP VESPASIANI, BMC pl. 11.13?

Then Commodus in 191, CONCORDIAE COMMODI AVG or CONC COMMODI P M TR P XVI IMP VIII COS VI, on aurei, denarii, bronzes, e.g. BMC pl. 97.18.
Curtis Clay

Offline slokind

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2006, 07:59:57 pm »
Was there a real difference, for them, between nouns that emperors can bring about, such a Concordia (handshake) or Victoria (triumph ensues) and nouns that the emperor must embody, practically must be, such as Spes and Virtus?  It had become, perhaps, a rather subtle thing, though, except for the verbal assertion, since the empress had long been identified with Venus and Hera and Ceres or Diana Lucifer and the emperor with Jupiter--so why shouldn't Sol be his ComesHistory has shown, though, that such slippages in language use do matter.  Maesa might have liked Pudicitia Iul Maesae rather than Publica?  Pat L.

Offline Rupert

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2006, 11:19:19 am »
Was Vespasian at Tarraco the first, denarius with VICTORIA IMP VESPASIANI, BMC pl. 11.13?

Almost but not quite. I should have remembered before that I have this one (I hate my Alzheimer!):

Galba quinarius, RIC 131var. (Victory standing left), Lugdunum acc. to RIC

Obv. SER GALBA IMP CAESAR AUG PMTP
Laureate head richt
Rev. VICTORIA - GALBAE AUG
Victory standing left on globe, with wreath in right and palm-branch in left hand

One year before Vespasian!

Rupert
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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2006, 01:24:06 pm »
Yes, I was forgetting a number of examples from 68-9:

VICTORIAE IMP GALBAE AVG, Victory inscribing SPQR onto shield, very rare Galba sest. of Lugdunum, BMC p. 353.

VICTORIA OTHONIS, well-known Otho aureus and denarius type.

CLEMENTIA IMP GERMANICI, SECVRITAS IMP GERMAN, VICTORIA IMP GERMANICI, Spanish aurei and denarii of Vitellius.  "Imperator Germanicus" of course means Vitellius, as can be seen from the Rome-mint aurei and denarii showing his two children with the legend LIBERI IMP GERMAN or LIBERI IMP GERM AVG.
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2006, 08:20:55 am »
Slightly off-topic, but in terms of lack of modesty, I think this one takes some beating :

IMP DEO ET DOMINO AURELIANO AVG - RESITVT ORBIS !

Ben

Offline Robert_Brenchley

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2006, 10:55:14 am »
Here's SALVS POSTVMI AVG. I admit I hadn't really thought about this one. How is it best translated; the Safety of Postumus the Emperor, or Safety [mediated by] Postumus the Emperor?
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Offline slokind

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Re: Spes OD
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 12:44:33 pm »
I considered this question, which seems very subtle to speakers of less inflected langauges, when (for a different purpose, as a photograph) I posted the other day my Caracalla denarius with SAL(us) GEN(eris) HUMANI.  My Latin reading instinct told me that this isn't lile SPES PROBI, though it pushes the envelope, more than suggesting that this child-Augustus (like the little princes in Virgil's 4th eclogue and the infant Britannicus lifted in Messalina's arms) is something like the Light of the World--and indeed, all the way down to the Pre-Raphaelites, that imagery, verbal or pictorial, goes back to the infant heirs to ancient thrones), though the Roman precedent for Caracalla is Trajan's (and Domitian's? No.  CommodusRIC 396, no. 260, and 434-5, nos. 600 and 606, for sest. and asTrajan has different figural type.
SALVS POSTVMI is more like SPES PROBI: the well-being / the hope (inherent in) Postumus / Probus.  Similarly for the empire, its VIRTVS is of Probus: true genitive, as in My hope is of the Lord--in some old translation of the psalms of David.
But it is the relative novelty and, as G/< said, his laying it on thick, that probably called attention to it on Probus's coins.  Still, Virtus, Pietas, Salus are characters residing in the Res Publica.  They do seem different from accomplishments of the emperor and his legions, such as Victoria and even Pax, or claims to titles such as Restitutor, Imperator, Pater (titles of agency), or even Dominus.
Like Roberrt, I was thinking about this.  Clementia is also the name of an official act, not solely the name of a virtue, but Vitellius may not have cared whether we made a distinction!
Pat L.

 

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