Nice city-gate from Marcianopolis, attribution?

[Jochen]

Hi!

Here is another new coin from Bulgaria. It is listed in Moushmov as no.495. But I couldn't find it at CoinArchives and so I have no better attribution. I hope anyone could help me.

Caracalla & Julia Domna AD 198-217
AE26, 11.43g
struck under the legate Quintilianus
obv. [ANTWNINOC] AVGOVCTOC IOVLIA / DOMNA
        confronted busts of the Imperial pair
rev. VP KVNTILIANOV MARKIANOP / OLITWN
       city-gate, with two floors, three doors, two windows; above four figures, from l. to r.:
       Caracalla with sceptre, Geta, Julia Domna and Severus, clasping hands
       E on left side for Pentassarion
Moushmov 495
about VF/superb EF

Thanks in advance!

[Pscipio]

Not exactly the same (the statues look a bit different, and the E is on the left of the gate, instead of on the right), but that may just be a variety: two coins attributed as AMNG I, 1, 694, BMC 20 (from Coinarchives).

Lars

[Pscipio]

That is interesting! In the footnote to no. 695, Pick says:

"It is possible that the difference in comparison with the previous coin is just seeming, evoked by the cruder work and the divergent position. The change could be deliberate, though, that is to say out of consideration of Geta's death and the damnation of his memory, which probably took place prior to the issue of the previous coin as well, however."

Lars

PS: I see Steve posted another German foot note - a bit longer, though. Do you understand it or would you be interested in a translation? I could work on it tomorrow, as I have enough free time, but only if there is need for it 

[Jochen]

Thanks so much!

Steve, I think that it is! I had not know that there are found so many different groups of figures on top of the building. I will check them tomorrow. And then there are different interpretations of the building too: City-gate or triumphal-arch.

Yes, Pscipio, I think a translation would be nice! I have had the same idea!

Best regards

[Steve Minnoch]

With a lot of help from Pscipio (thanks Lars!)  here is an attempt at an English translation of the German text describing the reverse types and the notes from AMNG for the two coin types displayed above, replacing earlier posts that just had the German text.  German speakers: if any corrections are needed please PM me.

Steve

Triumphal arch with three gates and two windows, on it statues standing facing, turned a little left, three men in short robes and one (the third from left) long-robed female; the first man seems to hold in the right hand a sword, the others stretch the right arm out to front, the three men lean their left arms on a spear.

[Steve Minnoch]

The type seems to depict a Triumphal Arch erected in Markianopolis.  For the four statues hardly any interpretation would be possible other than that proposed by A v. Sallet (Cat. Berlin 58,11), suggesting the Imperial family.  The short dress of the men should be armour, the second (from left) perhaps also wears the mantle; that they lean on the spear (on the first left figure it is missing only due to a mistake by the die-engraver as the position of the arm shows), is suitable for the emperors;  this is even more true of the sword the first man seems to hold.  Thus we would have to see in the centre Severus and Domna, Caracalla to the left, and to the right, probably deliberately depicted somewhat smaller, Geta. – The Triumphal Arch had presumably been constructed already under Severus; we don’t find it on coins before Caracalla’s sole reign, but presumably right at the beginning, since Geta is still shown. That the coin type was not suitable after the murder of Geta perhaps caused the change of the four statues, as shown on the following coin.  It is probable, that on the Triumphal Arch itself the statue of Geta was removed as well; the later depiction of a Triumphal Arch with only three figures (on a coin of Gordian, Taf III, 16) cannot be stated as proof, however, as there are three male persons, so just Domna would be missing.

[Steve Minnoch]

Triumphal arch like before, but the four figures are smaller and stand right, the third and fourth man (from left) hold in their right arm a spear (or branch?), on which also the first (man) seems to lay his hand. E in the right field.

[Steve Minnoch]

It is possible that the difference in comparison with the previous coin is just seeming, evoked by the cruder work and the divergent position. The change could be deliberate, though, that is to say out of consideration of Geta's death and the damnation of his memory, which probably took place prior to the issue of the previous coin as well, however.

[Steve Minnoch]

AMNG 694 is on the left of the first image, 695 is the one on the right, a die match for the reverse of Jochen's coin.

The coin in the second image is the Gordian III piece cited in the notes above.

Steve

[Bacchus]

Here is an archway example of Macrinus and Diadumenian with Victories as the outer statues.  To my knowledge there has been no direct identification of the middle two with the rulers.
 
Ob. AV K M OPPEL CEVH MAKPEINOC ANTWNEINOC DIADOVMENIANOC - Busts of Macrinus and Diadumenian facing

Rev. VP PONTIANOV MARKIANO / POLEITW /N -  (in the exergue)- Triumphal archway surmounted with four statues. The two outer statues are Victories one with wreath one with palm branch. One middle with raised scepter the other with rod or staff.

Ref. Muschmoff 569. Varbanov 929. Price/Trell, S. 51, Fig. 85 var
Size AE28
5 Assarion
Consular Legate: P. Fu. Pontianus


EDIT:  I think I will re-take the picture of this as my skills are slightly better now.

Malcolm

[Jochen]

Now we have seen 3 different Triumphal Archways:

a) the type with 3 doors and 2 windows and 4 figures
b) the type with 3 doors without windows and 3 figures
c) the type with 3 doors without windows and 4 figures from Bacchus

I wonder wether these are 3 different but real buildings or wether they exist only in the imagination of the celators?

Best regards

[Steve Minnoch]

The Macrinus version isn't in AMNG.  I have attempted a translation of the reverse description and the notes of the Gordian type from AMNG, not yet checked by anyone else: any corrections by PM please.

-------------------------------------------------------
Triumphal arch with three gates; three male statues standing on top, each with patera in extended right hand and the left leaning on a sceptre or spear; in middle gate, E.
------------------------------------------------------
A similar type appears under Caracalla and Domna (n.694, 695, Tafel III, 13, 14); but there the Triumphal arch has windows over the outside gates, and four statues stand above, showing the Imperial family.  It cannot be said with certainty whether the same Triumphal Arch, only with new statues, is depicted here or a completely new building. (See the introduction p 194).    How the statues on our arch are to be identified is also uncertain.  One might think Zeus between the Diouscuri, if the figures on the left and right were both naked or both dressed, but on the available specimen the figure on the left seems naked, the other dressed, not appropriate for the Dioscuri.  The figure in the centre is naked, and reminiscent of Zeus.   The depictions of the Gods could be interpreted as thanks for protection against the Goths, a connection which can be made with other types of this time. See the introduction P 194 – Perhaps a better preserved copy would bring certainty.

Steve

[Steve Minnoch]

And the illustration of the similar type to Bacchus from Price & Tell.  No attempt there as far as I can see to identify the statues.  If the family of Severus is shown on the first type, could thse cetnre two statues here be Macrinus and Diadumenian?

Steve

[slokind]

I'm still hunting for the discussion of this one (the Pontianus issue on the example in Berlin) and I'm afraid it was on my old computer that died of long overwork.  However, I do recall reading about that image, that the figures at r. and l. are explained as Nikai with wreaths and the central figures are Macrinus and Diadumenian.  Of course, they replaced statues of Caracalla and whomever.   As for the design of the arch itself, it could have been remodeled or simply differently rendered (we don't know).
I do have a placemarker (these coins are hard to get, and never for peanuts, so I am very grateful for the one I have), and here are my notes from when I accessioned it:
10 06 03 AE 28 Marcianopolis.  Issued by Pontianus.  Macrinus, laureate, to r. and Diadumenian to l., draped busts (as distinct from Varbanov 929, which is heads)  AVT K OPEL SEV MAKREINOS K M OPEL ANTONEINOS K.  Cf. Pick 751, whether same die (legend matches).  Rev., triumphal arch (same die as Price & Trell, fig. 85, Berlin, as distinct from Varbanov 929, Lanz 97, no. 796, with POLEITO / N in the exergue [cf. Pick 783, a temple] and E at left, though its heads die has the same obv. legend as this one: they go together).  Beginning in exergue, but oriented as the rest, VP    PONTIANOV ?? [MARKIAN]OPOLEITO    N (the nu "continuous", but in exergue).  From the Berlin example, it is certain that the statues are Nikai as if alighting, with wreaths, flanking male figures with their r. arms raised, presumably with spears or scepters, all four on pedestals.  E in field at r.

It weighs 12.00g  axis is 6h  A new photo does it much better justice than the scanner did.  So here it is for the obverse die match.  It is one of the delicate and sensitive bust dies.
Pat L.

[Bacchus]

Very interesting example.  Mine (obverse) should more properly be termed heads so I will update that in the description.  The Nikai are actually very clear on my example (even if the photograph isn't). I had thought that Macrinus & son were likely for the central two figures but thought it best not to simply assume .  Also note how the the stonework of the archway is the crudest of all the examples (only three big blocks high above the midway line). Jochen's, Steve's and Pat's are all much more ornate and detailed.

These reverses seem to be always with the twin head obverse - therefore 5 assaria - though it would be difficult to achieve on a smaller flan.

Malcolm

[areich]

I wonder how all my coins end up in your mailbox, Jochen?                   

[slokind]

Malcolm: Actually, a new photo (yes, your new ones are much better) would be much appreciated.  It's not as if Berlin had one of yours, and I think it is the scarcer of the two.  My old scan of mine showed nothing but a pretty shade of green.  Pat L.

[Bacchus]

I have tried to retake the photo of this coin but it seens to be unwilling to be photographed well with my set up.

I have included a close up of the four statues but even that has not come out as well as I had hoped.

All the best

Malcolm

[slokind]

Thank you!  Actually, the detail of the statues and the head of Diadumenian are great.  Pat L.

[Jochen]

And then you must consider the size of the figures! The 2nd from left is about 3mm if I am correct!

Best regards