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Author Topic: My Taras collection  (Read 66751 times)

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Offline Enodia

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My Taras collection
« on: February 22, 2012, 03:53:50 pm »
Greetings all,

With 15 coins from Taras now in my collection I've decided it was time to start a separate thread, so my Taras gallery can be found here...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3132

This one is my latest addition, a confusing little fraction which I've finally decided is a hemilitra. the dual standard system used at Taras makes attribution difficult at times, and the change in weights through the course of its' history confuses the issue even more. But all the information I've been able to glean suggests that this is the proper denomination.

~ Peter


Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2012, 05:15:02 pm »
this also arrived today...
Taras: Its History and Coinage, by George C. Brauer.

i'm in the middle of a Sharpe novel at the moment so it'll be a day or two before i can really dive into this, but as soon as the musket smoke clears...   :)

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 06:10:12 pm »
Taras: Its History and Coinage, by George C. Brauer.

i finished this last week, and found it to be an informative and enjoyable read. there were a few things i didn't know at all, but the real value to me was the way it provided a continuity to all the internet factoids i have been able to accumulate. seeing these details fit into an historical flow was priceless to me. in addition, each chapter ends with a discussion of the coins of that period.
i recommend this book for any enthusiast of the coinage of Magna Graecia, and especially of Taras (of course).

on a similar note i am currently in the middle of Harold Lamb's Hannibal (1958).
while ostensibly a work of historical fiction, this book reads more like a commentary with a few fictional dialogues thrown in to tie up the loose ends. very readable and informative if you are a fan of The Scourge of Rome, but more topical for me is the way it delved into Hannibal's relationship with the Greeks of southern Italy, and that brings us back to Taras once again. very complimentary as a follow-up to the above book, but recommended on it's own right too.

however i am still not entirely sated, so i am still on the prowl for another good history of Taras.
the (re)search continues...

~ Peter

Offline Molinari

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 10:41:59 pm »
Very nice gallery, I especially like the Sicilian bronzes!

Nick

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2012, 11:44:00 pm »
thanks Nick, i appreciate that.
i just added the Artemis Soteira, my fist Sicilian in 20 years!

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 03:06:46 pm »
no new coin to announce (more's the pity  :(  ), but i did just make a major addition to my collection.

after an almost endless search i finally was able to get an original printing of the 'Descriptive Catalog of The Collection of Tarentine Coins formed by M.P. Vlasto', by Oscar Ravel (1947). this is something i have wanted for some time, but i couldn't find one anywhere at any price!
this one came to me from Australia and very reasonably priced (although i still had to borrow the money from a friend), so i am very happy to finally add it to my library.

so now if any new Tarentine coins ever show up in the catalog here then i can finally add a coin too.   :)

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2012, 09:18:19 pm »
still no new coins to add, but the remodel continues as i re-list my old coins with new photos.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3132

today i uploaded 4 didrachms and my only plate coin, a little obol with a kantharos on each side. it was really cool to look in my new Vlasto catalog and see my own coin right there on a plate from 1947!  :)
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-82069

~ Peter


Offline Augustin Caron

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2012, 10:09:21 pm »
This is a wonderful and inspiring collection.
Thank you for sharing it,
AC

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 04:24:25 am »
thank you very much Augustin! it is a labor of love.  

i have finally, after encountering quite a few obstacles, been able to add a new Tarentine coin to my favorite collection. i don't have it in hand yet (hopefully soon!), but this will be the rarest coin in my collection so far.
stay tuned!   8)

~ Peter



and oh yeah... GO GIANTS!!!   :)
(sorry Chris!)

Offline Enodia

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rare drachm from Taras
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2012, 04:12:13 pm »
well it took almost a month, but my new drachm is finally here! it looks nicer in hand of course, but you can check it out here...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89379

this is a rarity with the owl facing left. of the 60 some-odd varieties of Tarentine drachms, only two depict the owl standing left, with the other showing Athena left. i have only found one other specimen sold within the past 10+ years, so i was glad to snatch this one up!
anyway, i found it an interesting piece, and i hope you do too.

~ Peter

Offline HELEN S

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2012, 03:39:36 am »
 

 this is truelly a coin to behold and one that would grace the premier position in anyones collection
 you are very lucky to have it and must be so thrilled
 i love all owls and have looked at many but i never knew such a coin existed WELL SNAPPED    +++ +++

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2012, 04:21:54 am »
thank you Helen.

i have found another example from CNA XV, lot 13 (1991), not the same coin but possibly from the same dies.




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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2012, 06:52:46 am »
Dear Peter,
my compliments, great acquisition!

I made a little research in my personal library for you, about the issue "owl standing left" on tarentine drachm...

First, the books without left owls:

SNG ANS -
SNG Christomanos -
SNG Delepierre -
SNG Dreer -
SNG Hart -
SNG Evelpidis -
SNG Fabricius -
SNG Gale -
SNG Lewis -
SNG Lloyd -
SNG Manchester -
SNG Milano -
SNG Newcastle
SNG Sweden I -
SNG Tubingen -
Norman Davis Collection -
ANS Dewing -
ANS Wulfing -
ANS Wheaton -
Gulbenkian Collection -
Frankfurt Museum; Forschner -
Pozzi Collection -

Now, the left owls...

The two we just know..

Vlasto 1065; 3,17g (Athena right)


Vlasto 1101; 3,22g (Athena left)


and some others...

SNG Munchen 714; 3,06g (Athena left)


SNG Hungary 125; 3,02g (Athena left)


SNG Cop 965; 2,96g (Athena left)


SNG Ashmolean 454; 2,79g (Athena left)


SNG France 1950; 2,84g (Athena left)


SNG France 1947; 3,01g (Athena right)



Another specimen from the web.. 3,2g (Athena right) Vauctions sale 273 lot 13



Some conclusions...
I think the reverse dies for the type with Athena right and the other with Athena left are different.
The Athena right type is really very very rare!!!!
Enjoy it Peter, I'm very happy for you, your collection is becoming more and more unique and interesting.

Bye :)

Nicola


Offline Enodia

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Re: rare drachm from Taras
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2012, 01:53:07 pm »
thank you Taras! very thorough information, as usual.   :)  

yes, obviously not the same reverse dies. i remember the racing torch now that you've posted it here, and it is a different artistic treatment entirely.
and you're right, it does seem that 1101 is more common than 1065... cool!

i believe the SNG France specimen may be the one sold at CNA back in '91, at least i recall that one being similarly off-centered. that and the VAuctions example are the only other ones i've seen offered.

i'm very glad i didn't put off buying this one, and thank you to our friend Lars for jumping through so many hoops to get it to me!

~ Peter

ETA;
nope, the CNA specimen is not the same as the SNG France plate coin, so there's five of them anyway, including the Vlasto/Evans piece.


Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2012, 11:43:54 pm »
i've been revamping my Taras gallery yet again, so have a look if you please...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=3132

i do have something very modest and very tiny coming soon. in fact it will be the smallest coin in my collection. low grade but scarce, and pedigreed to boot!
stay tuned...

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2012, 09:05:32 pm »
my new Tarentine fraction arrived today, and it sure is tiny. less than 1/4 gram, if i put it in my palm and blew it would just fly away!
it is low grade, but does look slightly better than the photo. but this well traveled little piece of silver seemed so lonely that i just had to rescue it. it is from the Colin E. Pitchfork collection, but has been around a bit since he liquidated his collection a couple of years back. it has been a part of two different lots, as well as having been listed by two different fixed-price dealers since 2009. it finally ended up priced at an almost bargain bin amount, the numismatic version of a bottle of Muscatel in a damp alley somewhere. i had to intervene.
so yes, it ain't pretty, but it comes from a good family. please be kind...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-89781

i have another piece in the pipe which is a bit more spectacular, so check back soon!

~ Peter

Offline Jay GT4

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2012, 10:13:56 pm »
Amazingly small!  Peter you need a macro lens! The pic doesn't do it justice!

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2012, 07:29:03 pm »
Amazingly small!  Peter you need a macro lens! The pic doesn't do it justice!

well, it almost does.   ;)

right now i am anxiously awaiting my first new Tarentine didrachm in nearly two years. it is from an earlier period than any of my others, but i mainly like it because the engraver's initial is the same as on my Metapontum didrachm.
can't wait to post it here!

~ Peter

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2012, 01:27:50 am »
Finally here!

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-90498

i really like the coin overall, the condition, and depiction and all. but as i said it was the signatures which drew me to it and the obverse signature of this coin...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-40493

and i think it speaks to that period rather well, being in general artistically superior to the similar coins of the following century.

~ Peter

Offline Steve E

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2012, 03:38:32 am »
A lovely coin, well executed and worthy of the engraver's signatures! Nice connection to your other coin!

Congrats!
Steve

Offline Rich Beale

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2012, 05:06:27 am »
A beautiful coin.

Ann Johnston put forward a very well constructed and convincing argument that these are not engravers' signatures, but rather magistrates' names.

Offline carthago

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2012, 09:22:58 am »
Enodia - I just had the opportunity to look at your gallery and it is a very well organized and nice collections.  Well done!

Carthago

Taras

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2012, 05:02:41 pm »
Great coin Peter! I'm happy for you :)
A little curiosity about the symbol on the reverse... François Lenormant in his travel report "La Grande Grèce", written between 1881 and 1884 described the piles of murex shells that in those years were still visible in Taranto, in the "site of Fontanelle", where in ancient times worked the tarentine craftsmen producing purple cloth.
Bye friend

Offline Enodia

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2012, 05:45:32 pm »
thank you both!
and Taras, you never fail to add those interesting little details which bring so much life to the hobby, thank you for that!

i had thought that the previous didrachm was to be my last coin of the year, but thanks to the thoughtful kindness of a dear friend i am able to add this little gem to my gallery...
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-90804

this is an important addition to my Taras collection. these early fractions can be pretty scarce and quite interesting as they represent a sort of transitional stage for Tarentine coinage, and i've been wanting one for some time.
the head on the reverse is often described as the nymph Satyra, who was the mother of Taras. however Vlasto describes the bust as Taras himself, and since i have yet to find one which is definitively female in appearence i'm going with that attribution. it must be admitted though that the similar image on the larger didrachms of the period could be seen as Satyra.

this coin is so much lovlier than this poor scan shows, but my digital skills are still rather raw. i don't do too badly in natural sunlight, but we haven't seen any of that here in Oregon for three weeks at least. hence, the scan.

~ Peter

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Re: My Taras collection
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2012, 01:14:57 pm »
Taras, you never fail to add those interesting little details which bring so much life to the hobby, thank you for that!

Thank you very much Peter, it's a pleasure for me, and I love to be part of this learned community.



the head on the reverse is often described as the nymph Satyra, who was the mother of Taras. however Vlasto describes the bust as Taras himself, and since i have yet to find one which is definitively female in appearence i'm going with that attribution. it must be admitted though that the similar image on the larger didrachms of the period could be seen as Satyra.

I agree with you, the head could be of Taras, and I'm not sure that "the similar image on the larger didrachms of the period could be seen as Satyra", at least not always.
I post the pics of two nomos from the same period (first half of the V b.C.)...
Looking at the first one (New York Sale VII lot 1) it seems that the head on reverse is very similar to the head of the male character on dolphin, at least in the hair style.
In the second one (NAC 52 lot 6) the head on the reverse is very ambiguous, and the presence of the taenia in the hair does not allow us to define it as a female head with certainty, because males also used it.
I think it is not easy to solve the issue, also considering that often in archaic Greece the mythical sons of gods were depicted as androgynous beings.

 

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