Numismatic and History Discussion Forums > History and Archeology
Where do coins come from?
Molinari:
One addendum: I have dozens of coins that were legally exported from Italy and not one has a documented find spot.
SC:
The following is based on my 20 years + of collecting ancient coins and speaking with coin dealers (both those with and without bricks and mortar stores), auction house employees, vendors at coin fairs and flea markets, swap meet and collectors' club members, metal detectorists and of course fellow collectors. I have engaged, in person, with various of these people in at least 15 countries. However, I may have missed many things and this is only anecdotal.
A complicating factor to our understanding of this phenomenon is that there are many layers between finder and the end customer. (I am only speaking here of "recently" found coins - not those from old collections.)
Most modern finds are made by metal detectorists. These detectorists will then sell these coins to someone else. Some may sell to a coin shop/coin dealer but by far most appear to sell to middle men. This middle man may be the one who exports the coins or there may be several middle men involved first. Coins usually eventually reach a brick and mortar dealer or an auction house. They are then sold to the customer.
Each layer, just like with the ancient spice trade or silk road, adds to the costs and, intentionally or otherwise, obscures the origin.
In my experience relationships, and luck, can help you gain access further up the chain or learn more.
Some examples.
I met with one of the bricks and mortar coin dealers that I knew when I lived in Vienna roughly once a week for five years. We chatted about everything. I sometimes helped him with IDs and references. Over that time period I learned a bit about his business. He bought from old collections and from new collections, from local detectorists and ones who came in from a few hundred kilometers away - both from Austria and nearby countries. He worked with some middlemen who brought coins from detectorists or groups of detectorists from further away. Sometimes people came from abroad to Vienna with coins and made the round of the stores trying to sell. I was there through several of his buyer transactions but was politely kicked out for some - usually because of coin values not source.
I belonged to a few local collectors group that met and swapped, traded, bought and sold coins. Through these I met, and bought from, around a half-dozen detectorists - in other words direct from the finder. Some told me generally where their coins came from - e.g. "farms around town X" - a few told me exactly where they came from (they knew I had no metal detector and was no threat to their find spots, plus many had exclusive relationships with the farm owners). One printed off a photo from google earth and circled the exact field. Sadly I have only about a dozen or two coins with this degree of knowledge.
Some online dealers used to group their uncleaned coins by country of origin. I knew some of these dealers and trusted that they actually sourced their coins from that country. But that was no absolute guarantee that the coins originated from there. They could have been brought into that country from elsewhere. However, looking over large sample revealed in many cases an excellent match to documented finds.
On the other hand, some stories can be complete fabrications. I have seen many flea-bay dealers selling coins they claim are from Britain or the Netherlands that anyone with any experience can tell come from the Balkans or the Middle East - not many provincial SC issues from Antioch or Latin Kingdom Byzantine trachys are found in England!
Anyway, enough late-in-the-day rambling. I hope my experiences help somewhat.
SC
Meepzorp:
Hi Helio,
I was specifically thinking about Magna Graecia (Greek Italy) coins being exported from Italy. Apparently, you aren't aware of what has been happening in the past 1-2 years. I literally have had about a dozen email exchanges with a few dealers in Italy. These dealers are exasperated because of all the ridiculous paperwork that is now needed to export these types of coins from Italy. The Italian government is asking for things that are impossible to provide, like find spots and where the coin has been for the past 100 years or more (prior to World War I). One Italian dealer has stopped shipping outside of the EU. Another Italian dealer had to refund my money for a coin I won in an auction because the Italian government wouldn't give him export permission. He has now stopped selling ancient coins in his auctions. He is only selling Medieval coins now, which are self-certified.
Meepzorp
Meepzorp:
--- Quote from: Molinari on December 16, 2021, 02:37:26 pm ---One addendum: I have dozens of coins that were legally exported from Italy and not one has a documented find spot.
--- End quote ---
Hi Nick and folks,
So do I. :)
But the Italian government is looking to change that now.
Meepzorp
cicerokid:
For a "reconstructed" hoard and it's consequences read The Gaziantep hoard by Andrew Meadows and Houghton on academia.edu. The co-operation with dealers once upon a time was noticeable and valuable.
John
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