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Author Topic: What is the first western coinage?  (Read 1564 times)

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Offline Lucas H

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What is the first western coinage?
« on: September 10, 2011, 09:07:51 am »
This query excludes eastern coinage.  I've seen varying information on what is the "first coin."  Most of what I see says they involved naturally occurring electrum found in Asia Minor, and even Lydia.  Early Roman silver is my thing, but I would like one example of something I could point to and say that is among the first types of coins ever minted.  Can anyone answer this with more certainty?  Are such coins available on the market?  If so, are the costly? 

Any information about the "first coin" (again in the west) would be greatly appreciated.

Offline PeterD

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2011, 09:51:27 am »
The earliest coins were basically Greek. There were Greek colonies in Italy as well as Asia Minor.

So if by "West" you mean Italy then the earliest coins were minted around 530 BC by Greeks. If you want to buy one have a look in Greek Coins and their Values Vol. 1 by David Sear.

Specifically Roman coins didn't start until around 300 BC.
Peter, London

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Offline Lucas H

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2011, 11:37:48 am »
Quote
So if by "West" you mean

By "west," I mean not is today China.  I'm talking about "Greek" coins of Lydia and/or Ionia (the electrum staters with lions, marks, and other such things."

Offline rover1.3

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2011, 12:01:03 pm »
Quote from: Lucas H on September 10, 2011, 09:07:51 am
Early Roman silver is my thing, but I would like one example of something I could point to and say that is among the first types of coins ever minted.

There exist several theories , nothing is absolutely sure, there are not definite answers to these questions, anyway.

If you want to have one of the earliest types ever minted, get yourself an AR Sea Turtle stater of Aigina, the first type minted in European territory,
being the international coinage of it's time.
Another choice is the 1/12 AR stater, forepart of Lion/Ornamented Star, of Miletos. (the larger denominations of the type are rare and more expensive)

Both types are nice, and a pretty inexpensive way to own something typical from the beginning of coinage.

Best regards,

rover

Offline benito

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2011, 12:46:35 pm »
I would go for Akragas and Syracuse.C. 530 BC they are not so expensive. C.430 BC is a totally different question.

Offline Lucas H

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2011, 06:45:53 pm »
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I would go for Akragas and Syracuse.C. 530 BC they are not so expensive

Examples?

Offline Steve E

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2011, 07:28:17 pm »
As Nikos said, there is alot of uncertainty surrounding this question!

However, many agree that the first silver (not electrum) coins were issued by King Croesus (Kroisos) of Lydia, c. 561-546 B.C.
At any rate, he seems to be one of the first to have a dual metal coinage. Gold, higher value denomonations, and silver lower value denoms.
The smallest silver denoms. start around $200.00 in worn, but readable, condition. Beware there are post Croesus issues that look similiar, but are several decades newer. (the Persians copied the design for a while, after they conquered Croesus, prior to designing their own gold daric and silver siglos with the great archer king)

~Steve

Edit; Examples Sear GCV II 3420 thru 3422

I've had a similiar desire to have what could be considered the oldest coins in western civilization. The electrum coins are pretty much out of my reach for now, so I decided to settle for the oldest silver. I think the above qualifies as best choice for me. I would have one by now but other coins always seem to take priority ::)

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 02:57:13 am »
One of the earliest....

Lloyd Taylor

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Re: What is the first western coinage?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 03:37:56 am »
CNG (Mail Bid Sale 72) on the subject...


IONIA, Uncertain. Circa 650-600 BC. EL Hemistater (7.16 g). Milesian standard. Striated type. Flattened striated surface / Two rough incuse square punches separated by a cleft. Cf. Weidauer 5 (trite); cf. Traité I 16 = BMC Ionia 1 (Miletos; stater; same cleft); Triton IX, 939; CNG 70, 271 (same punches and cleft). Good VF, small scuff on reverse. Extremely rare, one of five known hemistaters of this type. (sold for $11,000)

Apart from Herodotos (1.94.1), who assigned the origin of gold and silver coinage to the kings of Lydia, the physical evidence does confirm Asia Minor as the place of origin, most likely Lydia or Ionia, and a date somewhere around 650-625 BC. The alloy used, a mixture of gold and silver known to the Greeks as elektron, was based on the natural ore found in nugget form in many river-beds in the region. The earliest coins were of a globular shape and without design in imitation of this natural form; later, simple striated and punched patterns of squares, rectangles, and swastikas were included. The earliest true types may have developed from the use of personal seals, the most widely known being the stater of Ephesos with a stag bearing the inscription “I am a seal of Phanes”. These devices later took on the characteristics of civic symbols, although it would be dangerous to link a specific symbol to a particular city in this early period. The most secure form of classification has been by weight standard, based on two major, and several lesser-used, standards. The Milesian standard, with a stater of circa 14 grams, saw circulation in Lydia and parts of Ionia. The Phokaic standard of circa 16 grams was also used in Ionia as well as Mysia. Persic, Aeginetan, and Euboic standards saw scattered use in early coinage, limited in time and extent of circulation. The intrinsic value of the early electrum, even down to the 1/96 stater, was too high for use in everyday commerce, and early coinage must have been used only for the transfer of large sums of money, such as mercantile transactions, payment of government expenses (mercenaries, tribute and such), and donatives, either for services rendered to individuals or the state, or to religious foundations. The Artemision deposits, hoards of early electrum found at the site of the temple of Artemis at Ephesos, are examples of the latter.


The smaller denomination can be had for about 1/10 the price.  This 1/24th stater sold for $1200 and decent examples might be found for around $1K (if you are lucky, but watch out for fakes):
IONIA, Uncertain. Circa 650-600 BC. EL 1/24 Stater (0.62 g). Milesian standard. Striated type. Flattened striated surface / Incuse square punch. Weidauer -; Traité I 14-15; SNG Kayhan 682. Good VF.

 

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