A clone of Macrinus' sestertius (modern forgery)

[Illyricum65]

Good morning and a Happy New Year!

 I want to report a case of a clone of a likely Macrinus’ sestertius. There was first reported (by a user of the “Lamoneta.it Forum”) the presence of two coins with similar characteristics and initially was thought it was the same coin subject to restoration; subsequent researches led the evidence of other coins repeating  the same details and above all with the same flan.

The main repeated details are:
- mainly a gap at the edge at the "V" of AVG in the obverso's legend
- an irregularity at the level of "P" (of PONTIF...) in the reverso's legend
It is therefore likely a clone of the same coin, sold in different european shops at different times.
 
The dates of the auction's ends are these:

April 12, 2008

April 30, 2009

February 18, 2010

Febbruary 24, 2010

October 26, 2011

April 22, 2012

At first, the photo of the April 12, 2008 and the repeating details.

[Illyricum65]

Then the second (April 30, 2009),
the third (February 18, 2010)
and the fourth (February 24, 2010)

[Illyricum65]

The fifth (October 26, 2011)

and the last (April 22, 2012). Look with attention: the same lack on the obverso border and the same flaw near the "P" letter. And this particulars are repated on ALL the other coins!

[Illyricum65]

 This communication does not want to blame the shops (italians and europeans) but to report the presence of this fake (indeed of good quality), to alert all the possible future buyers and to prevent that this clone will still being sold.
 I hope, in few words, that so this clone could be "sterilized" and become unsaleable and your Fakes Reports could be a good option.
So please, if you could, insert this dangerous fake in your "Fakes Gallery"...

Thanks for your attention!

Illyricum
(ITALY)
 

[Joe Sermarini]

Fake coin report with combined photos please.

[Illyricum65]

Hi Joe,
I have sended the photos on the prevoius posts (with the dates of the auctions in their titles).
Today I send a picture with all the coins and the same detail repated on coin 1 and 6.

This is the report:

Macrinus sestertius
217-218 AD, Rome.
Sestertius Obv: IMPCAESMOPELSEVMACRINVSAVG - Laureate, draped and cuirassed bust right.
Rev: PONTIFMAXTRPIICOSPP - Felicitas standing left, holding caduceus and cornucopia.  S C across fields.               
RIC # 149, C # 84. Weight from 22.81 to 23.40 g.

Description: six coins with identical details were offered for sale in the last four years in various stores. These are certainly clones of the same coin. Note the lack on the edge height of the "V" of … AVG ... and the defect before the P of PONTIF ... of the reverse. Note also the proximity of the date of two similar coins (but not the same) in February 2010.

Offered in shops of the “Dea Moneta” circuit:
April 12, 2008 (RSM) - April 30, 2009 (RSM) - February 24, 2010 (ITA) - April 22, 2012 (RSM)
and out of this circuit:
February 18, 2010 (RSM) 
October 26, 2011 (GER)

If you need more then this, contact me without any problem!

Bye
Illyricum

[Potator II]

Very good job at spotting these Illyricum65

Thanks
JC

[Joe Sermarini]

...This is the report...

I appreciate the effort, however, that is not a fake coin report. Fake coin reports go here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/index.php

Discussion board posts are not fake coin reports.  The hard part is done.  It just needs to be uploaded to the right place.

Thanks,
Joe

[SRukke]

These for me, are scary fakes. The detail, patina etc., is all very good. The fact that they are appearing over time is even more disturbing. If we didn't see all of them together are there any tell tale signs of them being fake?

[Illyricum65]

These for me, are scary fakes. The detail, patina etc., is all very good. The fact that they are appearing over time is even more disturbing. If we didn't see all of them together are there any tell tale signs of them being fake?

Oh yeah, the level of these fakes are very alarming!
The details are very good, the surfaces without bubbles or traces of fusion... The italian seller, personally contacted by me, told me that NOW (with these similar exemples) he believe me but at the time of the auction, coin in hand, he was really SURE of the autenticity of the coin. And I believe him, he's a very correct, experienced and professional seller.
The fake of February 2010 for example is very alarming (unsold for 300€ [= 395 USD] then retired).
At a first sight (but probably in hand too) it seems a good coin with original green patina partially removed. The portrait presents a little lack on the cheek (not present in the other examples) of Macrinus and I supposed it could be the original coin. Maybe ... ? In other examples the patina is probably artificial...

Really the level of these fakes is very high and alarming! And probably only alerting the other possible customers, exchanging information and warnings, we can "sterilize" these scaring fakes!

This is the reason 'cause I (agree with other users of Lamoneta.it) have post this discussion and now I'm going to post these dangerous coins on the Fake Reports! We must keep calm and watch over! Only combining our efforts we can defeat ourself from ... this "sea of fakes"!!!

Bye
Illyricum

[Illyricum65]

Hi...
please, it's the first time I post a Fake Report in the Album and I have unfortunately wrong. There are a double insertion. 

So please cut the post with six coins without the auction's dates.

Thanks
Illyricum

[mix_val]

Very disturbing.   

[Illyricum65]

Hi,
this is a real "fake case". Or, if you like it... like a phoenix a fake became original roman coin from its ashes...

This fake, correctly signed as: Struck bronze copy of a sestertius of Domitian, GERMANIA CAPTA type
on the Ebay circuits
http://www.ebay.it/itm/321040840582?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

re-appear like
DOMITIAN BRASS SESTERTIUS BEAUTIFUL VERY RARE HISTORICAL GERMANIA CAPTA ISSUE !!

http://www.ebay.it/itm/DOMITIAN-BRASS-SESTERTIUS-BEAUTIFUL-VERY-RARE-HISTORICAL-GERMANIA-CAPTA-ISSUE-/261149250819?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccdb55503

Weight under the standard (18,3 g vs. 23 average weight for this issue..)

Decent details, with a false "double struck" on the obverse (see under GERMANIA)...

Fakes are like Bermuda grass, I don't know if you understand what I mean...

Bye
Illyricum

[*Alex]

And the same seller sold this identical coin twice - on the 26th of December and on the 27th of December.  
Since he has now received positive feedback from two different buyers, one sent on the 2nd and the other on the 4th of January, I assume this coin must be a fake as well.

Alex.

[Joe Sermarini]

Although a duplicate sale often means cast fakes, if the same photograph is used both times, we can't assume we have two fakes. We need evidence of two different coins, not two listings. Forum has, in error, listed the same coin on eBay twice in the same week.  Perhaps one bidder gave sympathetic positive feedback even though they did not receive the coin. 

[areich]

I do not think this seller would deliberately sell fake coins. There's a difference between being overconfident in your own abilities to authenticate coins and knowingly selling fake coins. So I also think these two sales of seemingly identical coins are a mistake of some kind.

[Sosius]

Another possibility is that the buyer sold it back to the seller, or consigned it to the seller for resale. 

[areich]

All in the course of one day?

[Sosius]

Sorry, somehow I missed that only a day passed between the two listings!  Sounds like it was a mistaken listing, then.