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Author Topic: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?  (Read 567 times)

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Offline Molinari

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New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« on: February 26, 2023, 09:12:13 am »
Very excited to see this yesterday.  Seller (Bertolami web auction 93, lot 341) suggests Kietis in Cilicia.  0.88g, 9mm, bronze.  Hermes obverse. Wish I had seen it when the sale was live!

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2023, 01:50:01 pm »
Hi Nick.

That's definitely a MFB. There is no doubt.

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Offline Altamura

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2023, 03:21:24 am »
...  Seller (Bertolami web auction 93, lot 341) suggests Kietis in Cilicia.  ...
As far as I know Kietis has been the name of a landscape or a tribe, but not a city. I never heard about coins from Kietis :-\.

Regards

Altamura

Online Pekka K

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2023, 03:43:24 am »

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2023, 08:17:12 am »
Kietis does seem to apply to a region rather than a city, the rough coordinates given by Ptolemy (though there is some disagreement about how accurate he was, for he included Olba).  I recently asked Frank Kovacs about the coin Pekka posted but he mentioned no specific city that has been identified as Kietis, so perhaps the RPC issue was a regional coinage struck at some centralized mint.

I do think this coin is from that region.  The crescent and inscription are indicative of that, and the cult of Acheloios was longstanding in Cilicia and nearby Cyprus. We have one other small bronze unit from Mylai, at the mouth of the Calycadnus, dating to the same time period, if my memory is correct.

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2023, 08:20:17 am »
I plan to do a formal write-up for Koinon but I’d like to speak to the original numismatist who wrote up the sale.  He or she may have some insight about where the consignment came from.

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2023, 08:43:31 am »
Barrington Atlas location in blue.  Ptolemy's coordinates in red.  This coin could be the earliest attestation of a Kietis, since there isn't solid evidence of it (according to B.A.) until the early Roman Empire, c. 30 BC. But where is Barrington getting their coordinates?  Looking for other ancient authors now but nothing in TLG.

Offline Meepzorp

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2023, 09:19:58 am »
...the cult of Acheloios was longstanding in Cilicia and nearby Cyprus.

Hi folks,

There appears to be a connection between Kietis and Cyprus. The RPC coin (in Pekka's post) depicts a scorpion on the reverse.

I have an Augustus coin from Cyprus with a scorpion on the reverse (last coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/rp_cyprus.htm

Meepzorp

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2023, 09:29:43 am »
Certainly a heavy Cypriot influence on at least the cult and coinage of Acheloios, so I don't doubt an iconographic borrowing with the scorpion too.

FYI, just learned there is a Roman Imperial inscription mentioning a city called Koropissos, which gives us our northnermost location in Kietis, it being identified with the Byzantine Hieropolis of Isauria.

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Offline Meepzorp

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2023, 09:32:18 am »
Kietis does seem to apply to a region rather than a city, the rough coordinates given by Ptolemy (though there is some disagreement about how accurate he was, for he included Olba).  I recently asked Frank Kovacs about the coin Pekka posted but he mentioned no specific city that has been identified as Kietis, so perhaps the RPC issue was a regional coinage struck at some centralized mint.

Hi folks,

It is not unheard of for a coin to be issued by a region and not a city.

That is also true for Aitolia. It is a region, rather than a city.

I have an Aitolia coin (last coin):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/meepzorp/g_achaia_aitolia.htm

Meepzorp

Offline Virgil H

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2023, 03:43:59 pm »
For interest, Kelts on Pleiades:

https://pleiades.stoa.org/places/648669

Virgil

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2023, 05:15:28 pm »
Thanks.  I ran into this earlier and it was somewhat helpful, though it doesn’t correspond with Ptolemy’s account (neither does BA, which is presumably the source for Pleiades).

Offline Virgil H

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2023, 06:40:07 pm »
Pleiades is super helpful if you like maps and there are often links to photos of objects and places associated with sites and structures. The database is maintained by volunteers, mostly academics, but I even have an editor account and can make entries and corrections, which I have done for a couple of specific structures where they had it in the wrong place. I have thought of maybe adding some coin pictures associated with various places. But I am not sure the folks who use this resource would really care about that. I love the site, though.

Virgil

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2023, 03:34:40 pm »
I read here on Forum ( https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=Cilicia ) that Antiochos IV's Commagene Cietis (Kietis) mint was loacted at Anemurium, but I've yet to see this anywhere outside of Numiswiki.  If someone knows the source of this theory I would very much appreciate it.

PS: here is my map for the article, so far.

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2023, 03:46:04 pm »
Perhaps I’ve misinterpreted—one of the mints in Cietis was at Anemurium, not all Cietis mints!

Offline Molinari

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Re: New MFB: Kietis in Cilicia?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2023, 03:59:02 pm »
Perhaps not!:

"Cetis or Cietis. A large district, including Olba, part of the Calycadnus valley , and the country south of it, and the districts of Cennatis, Lalassis, and Lacanatis. For coins inscr. ΚΙΗΤΩΝ see Anemurium."

 

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