FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
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The Members' Gallery => Topic started by: cmcdon0923 on February 21, 2023, 11:16:39 pm
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I have finally (!) started uploading images of my collection of Byzantine solidi to a gallery I actually started several years ago. Previously there were a few coins in the gallery, just as placeholders, that used the auction house / dealer images.
I finally got around to shooting my own images, and am going to get them all uploaded over the next week or so. The images were taken with the goal of showing what the coin actually looks like in the metal, without strategically placed lighting or other post processing manipulations. Most commercial images make these pieces of history look like modern proof coinages. I would rather see a true image, warts and all.
Hopefully you will enjoy the collection. Here is the direct link: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6652
Craig
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A couple nice solidii there.
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Slowly working my way through the collection....a few more, here.....
Craig
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Another small group uploaded.....only a handful more to go.
Craig
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Brilliant Byzantine collection! I thoroughly enjoyed browsing through your solidi collection. I’ve only got one Romanus III gold histamenon in my collection at the moment which I acquired last year.
Romanus III Argyrus (12 Nov 1028 - 11 Apr 1034 AD), Gold Histamenon Nomisma, DOC III-2 1d, Morrisson BnF 43/Cp/AV/01, Ratto 1972, Sommer 43.2.2, SBCV 1819, Wroth BMC 2, EF, weight 4.45g, maximum diameter 25.0mm, die axis 180°, Constantinople (Istanbul, Turkey) mint, 12 Nov 1028 - 11 Apr 1034 AD; obverse + IҺS XIS RЄX-RЄϚNANTIҺm (Jesus Christ, King of Kings), Christ Pantokrator, bearded, enthroned facing on square-backed throne (Type IIa), with nimbus cruciger, wearing pallium and colobium, raising right hand in benediction and holding Book of Gospels by upper edge on left knee with left, pelleted double border surrounding; reverse ΘCЄ bOHΘ'-RωmAҺω (God-Bearer, help Romanus), MΘ (Mother of God) above center, Virgin, nimbate, standing facing on right, wearing pallium and maphorium, raising left hand in benediction and crowning with right Romanus III, bearded, standing facing on left, wearing crown with cross and pendilia, sakkos and modified square pattern loros with four pellets on fold, holding right hand on breast and globus cruciger in left, pelleted double border surrounding; scarce.
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Very nice coin, Serendipity !
So far I haven't progressed into the successor coins of the solidus. I still have a few I'd like to add before moving on into those issues.
And thank you for the kind words regarding my collection. I still have a handful to post, but I either don't have a photo that I am happy with, or I need to pull the coins from the bank for some missing information to be included in the posts.
Craig
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Very nice, they all look great. Inspiring as I am currently on a similar collection. Do you have a specific objective in mind to complete it (e.g., period or theme) or not necessarily?
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Thank you Kingston. I appreciate the compliments.
I don't really have any hard and fast objectives, as to be completely honest, ancients aren't really even my main collecting interest. That being said, I've probably bought 10x the number of ancients as I have in my primary area of interest, over the last 12 months.
Obviously I'd like as many emperors as possible, but I absolutely know that there are a decent number of them that I will never own, simply because of their cost. I will probably also stop with the end of the issuance of solidi.
Craig
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I was able to acquire this solidus of Constantine VI, with his mother Irene as Regent. I figure it's probably as close as I'll get to a portrait of Irene.
Craig
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And one more....
I have two coins I still need to pull from the bank and reshoot, then everything will be up to date.
Craig
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you're really got some great examples posted here, including many emperors I'd like to have examples of :)
My nascent byzantine gold gallery (including a couple pre-byzantine period eastern mint solidii) can be found here if you have an interest:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=7669 (https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=7669)
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You have a beautiful collection.
Virgil
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Quite expensive to get a standalone Irene coin. I think I will do the same as you did and aim at a Constantine VI with Irene coin - more affordable and equally good looking!
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You have a beautiful collection.
Thank you Virgil. I appreciate your kind compliments.
Craig
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I attended the annual Texas Numismatic Association (TNA) convention in Arlington, earlier today, and came across this coin at the table of Nick Economopoulos. It's a solidus from the first reign of emperor Justinian II.
The coin is very lustrous, and well struck with complete legends all around. It is also essentially full standard weight, indicating no clipping.
Craig
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I just uploaded the last of the coins from my collection of Byzantine solidi.
I was finally able to get the coins from the bank to fill in some missing information for the last few coins before uploading them. I was also able to fill in some missing weights and diameters for a few coins, that I didn't have in my records.
It was actually a fun process, which allowed me to spend some time with each of the coins. And as a result, I've identified one or two that I will want to upgrade with better condition pieces. These were mostly some of my earlier purchases when I was still in a "I need one of those" collector mode.
I've also looked at the emperors I still need. Some of them will be relatively easy to find, and a few others, not so much.
I also may look at adding a brief one paragraph bio for each emperor, to make the galley a bit more educational as opposed to just a picture gallery.
I hope y'all enjoy looking at the coins as much as I did getting the gallery to this point.
Craig
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My latest purchase....Constantine IV
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I am not sure if it really makes sense to make better pcitures of the Theophilus.
It is a Beirut forgery, Imho they are cast fakes and some with little modified flan shape.
They are so COMPLETELY identical that I even thought that one of them was sold several times but 4,08g, 4,38g and 4,51g speak against the same coin.
They share:
1.Same scratches on obverse and reverse (red arrows!)
2. same centering and flan shape, on yours it is sightly modified (a little bit huger fla) that you can see that part of the dotted border is missing due to bad centering of the authentic mother, so your coin can not be the authentic mother. (pink arrow ca 10 o clock on obverse )
3. Same flat struck areas on obverse and reverse on all coins (blue arrow)
4. No new details, they all have the same details from authentic mother
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OUCH !!!!!
Well that's definitely not something I wanted to hear!
The coin was bought out of a NYINC sale back in January 2017, complete with NGC encapsulation. Unfortunately I cracked it out upon receipt. I kept the NGC tag that it came with, but I doubt that's going to be of any value since I removed the coin from it's tomb.
I'll contact the auction house on Monday to see if I have any recourse, but I'm not going to hold my breath.
Craig
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I have created a FAKE COINS REPORT for this item. I've never done one before, so if I did anything incorrectly, please let me know and I will correct it ASAP.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=132137.0
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As for the dealer, even though you cracked it out of its case, I think you have a good case if a reputable company because of the photos that will be available at the NGC site versus the details provided by Din X and your actual coin. I think it would be hard for them to refute unless they absolve themselves with the fact that NGC encapsulated it. I certainly wouldn't blame the dealer for selling this since it was encapsulated, but they should also make it right by you. In any case, good luck.
Virgil
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I just quickly check on Acsearch, and it’s scary to see that I quickly found many specimens sold in the last 10 years by big Auction houses with the same characteristics showed by Dinx. Is it possible to determine which one is the authentic mother host ?
DT
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In looking back at my purchase records. It references coming out of a collection auctioned back in July of 1997, so these fakes had already been around for at least 20 years when I bought it.
I spoke with the auction house, and they have offered to submit the coin to NGC, as opposed to my doing it. This is due primarily due to my having removed it from the slab. Them presenting it for refund may carry a bit more weight than just some two-bit collector trying to do it. Stay tuned........
Craig
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Well it’s good the auction house is working with you on the issue.
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In looking back at my purchase records. It references coming out of a collection auctioned back in July of 1997, so these fakes had already been around for at least 20 years when I bought it.
The Beirut forgers school was active from the 1950s to the time of the Civil War of the 1980s, and might have begun their operations again more recently in the 2000’s. They seem to have used die transfer technology and a high degree of technical craftsmanship when creating their counterfeits.
DT
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I assume that NGC is much better now than it was when the coin was slabbed but I would still add pictues of the other cast fakes with different weights and the small differences, to lower the chance near 0% that it could be reslabbed as authentic.
There are still slipping fakes through NGC but it is normal no one is perfect.
You can writte Barry Murphy from NGC he is a member here and on different other boards, not sure if the auction house will accept it, if you start a topic on cointalk or in facebookgroup where he is very active and ask directly for the help of him in the hope that he will possibly feel honored and help, if he will condemn it, it is like a NGC condemnation.
Not sure how the auction house will react if the coin is now condemned by NGC.
If the weight of your coin and the slabbed on is identical and no visible differences between NGC pictures and your coin then they can hardly deny that it is the same coin. (If they want to cheat and say you have exchanged it with a cast copy).
This is a general problem that many dealers and even auction houses rely very much to NGC and their opinion and it than can be difficult to get the money back for a slabbed fake.
Some do not even authenticate coins anymore themself and only rely on NGC, for example smaller dealers, who are not familiar with ancient coins can now sell ancient coins because they do not have to authenticate them anymore themself.
For reliable authentication is much knowledge necessary, for correct attribution often a search with acsearch is enough.
I guess in such cases the only way to get the money back is resubmitting a slabbed fake to NGC with information why it is fake and using the new NGC condemnation to get the money back.
It is of course possible to recognize the authentic mother but for reliable results much better pictures or the coin in hand would be required.
I know my limits.
The authentic mother always has the sharpest and best details, some or all details can be recut into the casting mould but this recut details will not be as crisp as on a struck or pressed coin.
The authentic mother has the highest weight and size, shrinkage in mould of metal when cooling down, exception metal alloy has been modified for example metal with higher density used, flan shape modified or if edge cracks will be filled there will be extra metal on the cast fake not present on the authentic mother.
I would not dare to speculated which is the authentic mother because I am not 100% certain and I do not want risk to declare a cast fake to the authentic mother and so condemning the real authentic mother.
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My most recent addition.... Tiberius III (Apsimar), 698 - 705 AD
Craig
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I just wanted to let anyone who may be interested know that yesterday I received a check from the auction house for the full amount I paid for the fake Theophilus solidus.
Based on discussions we had and emails we exchanged, I am under the impression that they covered the refund, without involving NGC. They did mention that the "coin" would be melted down, I assume to at least recover any intrinsic value from the gold it might contain. But it's also nice to know that this particular example will never again curse anyone's cabinet.
Craig
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Thx for the update. I’m glad they took care of you.