Fake Attic tetradrachm

[Din X]

A die match to "bpmurphy" identified fakes is currently for sale.
The imho the toning and dirt is artifcial, flan shap is very odd and details do look a little bit soft.
I knew at first sight that there was something wrong so I searched forgerynetwork without success and then I remembered on that thread in ancients.info
I could not find this fakes in fake reports, too. (searched Athen+tetradrachm)

PS: Extremely bad and obvious fakes not sure how they could fool anyone.

"bpmurphy" "Upon closer examination, I will leave open the possibility that the NY Sale coin may have been the host for the obverse and the one reverse die. The cracks on the edge do look a bit more authentic and the coin doesn't appear to have th same satiny surfaces."

The host/ mother should have all details (from the authentic dies) that the other fakes produced from this impression of the mother/host have, if no details were recutted !!! Impression of mother/host is used to make casting mould or transfer dies.

There seem to be only one obverse die, all have a die flaw over the mouth of Athena!!!
And two differnt reverse dies.

The NY coin can not be the host, except there were many details recutted for example the NA(.) fake has part of the crest, which are missing on the other examples.
The NY coin coin is missing a part of the letter epsilon, but a complete epsilon can be found on the first fake of bpmurphy´s picture or on the fake currently for sale by Italian auction house together with several imho fake at least extremely suspicious Sicilian coins .
IMHO all coins in these pictures are fake and non of them is host/mother, I do not like the flanshape and artificial toning+fake dirt and details.

The one with best details needn´t be the mother, it can be a cast or transfer die fake, too.

The one with all details and sharpest details is likely the host/mother, except there has been recutting of details into the impression used to make mould or transfer dies.

The details, which are missing on the NY coin do look very convincing on the other coins and there are more fine details missing on the NY coin.
If they can recut some details so well, then they could have recutted the whole crest easily.







http://www.ancients.info/forums/showthread.php?t=1060

"bpmurphy"

Good evening all,

I'd like to share a group of fake Athens tetradrachms that have been on the market for at least the last 3 years.

http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/images...kes-Athens.jpg

The coins are all struck from the same obverse die and two reverse dies. The obverses all have the small bump above the lip, the raised bumps on the nose, the lines protruding from the forehead and the unusal curve to the right hand petal of the flower on the helmet. There are other points of identification but this should suffice.

The two reverse dies can be easily distinguished by the large flaw under the left eye that appears on one of the dies.

None of the coins have an apparent crest, just a row of small dots then some blurred metal.

The two coins in my fake trays have been there since early 2004.

While I've had the two fakes for awhile, the problem didn't really come to my attention until earlier this summer. Victor at CNG showed me an Athens tetradrachm that had just come from Europe and asked my opinion. The coin had a satiny texture (like the two in my black trays) and looked odd. After some study I came to the conclusion that the coin was fake. He then confirmed that he was of the same opinion. I believe that coin was returned to the seller and I don't have a photo of that coin. I then did some searching and found he other 3 coins, one found on Vcoins at the time and 2 on CoinArchives.

I didn't realize at the time that I had two of the same fakes in my black trays. That fact wasn't realized until an hour ago when sorting my fakes.

In the flesh, the two coins on my desk and the one Victor showed me have a satiny appearance. I studied the CNG coin for about 30 seconds and had thought it was fake, then studied it closer for a few minutes. None of the coins appear to me to be very deceptive, but evidently they have fooled a few people so be on the lookout. All have been artificially toned and have had some dirt applied. I'm certain that there are others out there.

Upon closer examination, I will leave open the possibility that the NY Sale coin may have been the host for the obverse and the one reverse die. The cracks on the edge do look a bit more authentic and the coin doesn't appear to have th same satiny surfaces.

Barry Murphy

[peterpil19]

Thanks Din X,

I have added them to the Fake Coin Reports.

Peter

[Din X]

Another one is currently for sale by by a British auction house on 14 Nov 2019.
See identical huge die flaw on reverse near the owls eye that looks almost like a tear.
But this one seems to have significant die rust on obverse and the obverse die seems to be new and is possibly even from an earlier or later issue.
So my question is if this 2 different obverse dies are from the same times or emission or not and if not if such a die combination is actually possible?
You can see here typical detail loss and transfer errors transfer die fakes.
Transfer die fakes can be very easiy identified with talent and experience and this are very bad and obvious transfer die fakes that should not fool anyone.

Picture 1 new fake with new obverse die
Picture 2 new fake with new obverse die, cycled red what is different
Picture 3 another of these fakes with same reverse die offered by auction house some time ago, did not publish, I only post less than 1% of the fakes I find most will be only save on usb stick.  
 

[Joe Sermarini]

Thanks Din X.

[Cagman Y]

I actually bought one of these on ebay recently. The coin is slabbed but looks suspiciously close to the ones posted here. Is this coin fake ? How did it get slabbed then?

[Joe Sermarini]

I actually bought one of these on ebay recently. The coin is slabbed but looks suspiciously close to the ones posted here. Is this coin fake ? How did it get slabbed then?

You think it looks "suspiciously close" because the forgers are trying to copy originals. Most fakes have some resemblance to genuine originals. To an experienced eye, however, your coin looks genuine and is not suspiciously close at all. 

[Cagman Y]

I actually bought one of these on ebay recently. The coin is slabbed but looks suspiciously close to the ones posted here. Is this coin fake ? How did it get slabbed then?

You think it looks "suspiciously close" because the forgers are trying to copy originals. Most fakes have some resemblance to genuine originals. To an experienced eye, however, your coin looks genuine and is not suspiciously close at all. 

Awesome.  My fears are relieved now That's why I rely on experts in forum as my eye is not experienced enough to see the subtle differences.

[gallienus1]

The examples posted by DinX for sale at auction on 14 Nov 2019 are the same dies as my example purchased about 20 years ago. I bought it as a silver copy of a classical owl to make it into a pendant.The strike on mine shows more of the crest and hair below the helmet so I'm posting pictures as a reference. If you view the coin from the edge you can see the relief is lower than a genuine example, which would to my mind be an easy way to spot these other than the "tear" on the owl.

[Din X]

Some more have appeared meanwhile

[Din X]

And the reason why I post, I was able to finde an authentic coin which is die linked to them (same reverse die with the die flaw near the eye of the owl).
This one is supposed to be an Egypt, Pharaonic Kingdom imitation, that would prove that the forger has mixed dies of offical (Athens) and unofficial (imitaton possibly Egypt mint) mints.

[djmacdo]

Very interesting!  I have seen more fake Athenians in the last year than in the preceding half century.

[Pawel K]

Hello!

What do You think about that?

[djmacdo]

Do you have reason to suspect it?  Weight?  My first impression is that it is a normal Athenian tetradrachm.

[Pawel K]

Porous surface and suspicious seller.