A slightly different fake topic

[basemetal]

Browse the internet and you will see literally hundreds, if not thousands of "roman or mideval arrowheads" for sale. 
Without certification, provenace(again certification), or anything.  They don't usually cost much, but again, how much should a lump of unattributed iron or bronze(very problematic) cost?
My question(s) are:
Are ancient arrowhead or points actually found, dug up and sold like hoards of coins that we are so familiar with?
An ancient/counterfeit coin by it's nature carries a badge of authenticity, or not.
Is there any way short of sophisticated metal analysis to determine if said arrowhead or point is authentic?
I actually showed two rather good modern blacksmiths images of "ancient arrowheads". The normal variety offered with several different kinds of shapes.   They both agreed that fabricating was no problem.
One said, as far as aging, bury them in a fertilized field or garden for a couple of rainy months.  He was the romantic of the two, I believe.
The second recommended a bucket of salt water placed outside, warm temperatures, and a week or two or longer of immersion.
I have no objection to buying a couple of "reproductions" of what an ancient or mideval arrowhead would have looked like. Even more if it was not "aged".
Are any offered real or is it impossible to determine?
Thanks for any discussion and moderators move this post if in the wrong place.
Bruce
Basemetal

[berserkrro]

A real patina is very easy to be determined by a trained eye. I cannot see any of those two methods producing something even close. If anything would be so easy, pay them to proove what they said, I'm sure that the result will be very different from a real arrowhead. In ancient times, manufacturing of arrowheads was a daily activity and a well known one, also the producing methods were learned from generation to generation. That's why a certain type of arrowhead is looking in a certain way, it was like a mass production. Combined with a real patina and their small price, is not something that would bring too much money if faked, but mostly work and risk.

[EX.NVMMIS]

Hi Bruce, I usually bought some of this arrowheads (attached pictures), & cant see any wrong about patina, it looks real, is a "hard" patina like you can see in ancient coin (some of them with earthen incrustations). But I bought only bronze arrowsheads. I dont have any iron arrowhead, & I dont know if this can be counterfeit easily

Ricardo

[EX.NVMMIS]

more pics

[Paladin394]

I have been much more cautious when looking at antiquities or ancient coins after reading the posts on this site and searching the web for other sites which examine the so called "antiquities" trade on ebay.Ê I also know that ebay does not seem to care that much about policing thing after they failed to stop the sale of a certain antiquity sold by byblosantiques despite two warnings I sent to ebay (and the seller) about the impossibility of the item being legitimate.Ê

I own one Roman arrowhead which I bought from a trusted dealer at one of the NYC shows, and I have a stoneage spearhead (Dug up and marked with the location of the find by a named German professor) which I bought from an online dealer who I knew of because he also attends the major NYC antiquities and coin show which is usually held in January.Ê I have decided that I will no longer buy, or even think of buying, an antiquity or coin from an ebay seller who seems to have no knowledge of the subject based on his/her descriptions of the items they sell, or if he is on the list which is available on this site.Ê I will not buy anything from a seller who keeps the names of his bidders "private." I will not buy any coins from a seller who does not provide the size, weight, minting location (if possible) and reference to one or more of the many sources which classify ancient coins.Ê I expect that most of the ebay ancient coin dealers have never even heard of David Sear.Ê If an ebay seller of arrowheads is also selling unattributed Roman and Greek coins, or antiquities which look like they should be in a museum, I would also be suspicious.Ê However, I have seen a lot of arrowheads at shows, which tells me that they are not that rare, and perhaps a crooked seller is salting his stock with a few genuine items to confuse people.Ê The photos Ricardo posted show me, a non-expert, nothing to worry about.

I expect that there are probably Eastern European (Bulgaria, the former area of Yugoslavia, and Macedonia) and LebaneseÊ "workshops" putting out forged antiquities in greater numbers than ever before because of the lax nature of ebay's "policing" of its site.Ê In prior years, the dealers who sold you items would make sure that they were buying legitimate items, or take back your item at full price if it was disovered that they were fakes.  There is no level of dealer protection on ebay because many of the dealers are probably not experts in their field, and are only out for the money.  The forgers also seem to be better at producing the patinas and toning which can can make or break a forgery.Ê The low end items, of which there are many,Ê are probably bought by people who never thought they could buy an antiquity, at prices which are not great enough for them to pay for an appraisal by an expert, and the high end items are bought, perhaps, by people who believe the items are from the "black market," who will not go to an appraiser for fear of discovery. (I am speculating on this, or course.)

I would be more suspect about iron arrow heads than bronze ones, by the way.Ê Iron does not do well in the ground over time, and most iron items are decimated over the years because of rust.Ê Look what happens to cast iron railings in a few years, even if you have painted them. Now think of a thin iron sword, knife or arrowhead, and what would happen to it in 700 to 1,000 years of existence in moist dirt.Ê I have been stunned by the iron knives, swords, and other weapons offered on ebay.Ê Some of them would bring top dollars at a major auction house if real. These weapons are made to fool and catch the interest of the macho guy who has the money and wants to have an ancient weapon on his wall. They also try to get the guys, and maybe the girlfriends of the guys with the Roman phallic amulets.Ê

Other items I would be suspicious of are the more exquisite rings, intaglios, and the bronze Byzantine era crosses.Ê I also believe that many of the ubiquitous bronze fibula pins are fake.Ê

It would be nice is this site could have a permanent post for antiquities other than coins, since the two are so historically intertwined.Ê I have not yet found a site as good as this one which looks at antiquities.

[rick fox]

It does truly amaze me to see iron arrow heads and spear points on sale or being auctioned that are nearly whole.   One idiot in WA (and we all know who he is) is selling 3 for $1500.

He would be better off find Sasquatch and auctioning him off.  I am sure there are gullible people in the US who would buy him.