Devonshire collection ?

[helvetica]

Where can one find the Devonshire collection ? Isegrim cites, for example "BMC 19 S204,220(1) / SLG DEVONSHIRE 768" (SLG being the German abbreviation for "Sammlung" = collection.
The BMC volumes do not include a Bibliography. Searching Isegrim's Biblio - neither in my Isegrim xls, nor in the GCAM version - gives any information about it. A search gives me two Sotheby sales of the Duke of Devonshire's collection in March 1844, but the lot numbers do not necessarily correspond to any Isegrim's "Devonshire" entries, plus there is the fact that the Sotheby auction gives practically no details of the coins.
Is there a real SNG Devonshire or something similar ?

[Pekka K]

Maybe this helps:  William George Spencer Cavendish, 6th Duke of Devonshire

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/BIOG25176

Pekka K

[esnible]

I am surprised that ISEGRIM is citing things lacking in their own bibliography.

Probably these:

https://donum.numismatics.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=16167

Catalogue of the first portion of the [Duke of Devonshire's] very important collection of coins and medals, comprising the Greek and Roman series ... [03/18/1844]

If you enter "Devonshire" into DONUM you get this plus many other entries; because Devonshire is a county in English which has merchant tokens, hoards of Roman coin burials, etc.

-Ed

[Steve Moulding]

What is the actual coin? Per Ed's website http://snible.org/coins/bmc/, BMC Vol. 19 is "Lycia, Pamphylia and Pisidia, by Hill, 1897", but I don't know what S204,220(1) means, and I don't have ISEGRIM.

Cheers,

Steve

[esnible]

S204 means "page 204".  "S" abbreviates the German word "Seite".

BMC 19 means "BMC Greek, volume 19".

This is page 204: https://books.google.com/books?id=F2wCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA204#v=onepage&q&f=false

Coin 9 on that page is provenanced to [Devonshire].

(1) means "the first coin in this entry".

The 220 mystifies me.  I would expect this entry to say "BMC 19 S204,9(1)".

[Steve Moulding]

Thanks Ed. So, Archive.org has the Devonshire catalog (Christie & Manson) from 1844. Lot 768 is shown here: https://archive.org/details/catalogueoffirst00chri_0/page/58/mode/2up

Steve

[esnible]

... I don't have ISEGRIM.

I forgot to mention that ISEGRIM is a web site, http://isegrim.dasr.de/isegrim_neu/test2014.php , and an Excel spreadsheet, https://www.wildwinds.com/Isegrim/

Researchers at the University of Düsseldorf spent over 30 years manually typing Greek coin types into an old database.  It was a very early attempt at a "semantic" database.  Users could search for "portrait left" and it would match any emperor with a left-facing portrait.  It also allowed regular expression searches.

Unfortunately the system had a 1980s-style user interface that required understanding of a query language and German abbreviations.  A few years ago a forms-based interface was added, but the ability to do regular expression searches was removed.  As a coin database designer you will be interesting in trying it out and seeing the pros and cons of the approach.

There was also a "printed version of ISEGRIM", the 1986 book Typenkatalog der antiken Münzen Kleinasiens by Otfried von Vacano.  It is rare.  Reviewed by Ted Buttrey at https://www.jstor.org/stable/42668155?seq=1#metadata_info_tab_contents

[dwarf]

Developing the descriptions was fun - and this was primarily a student's project in the beginning!
I still remember us posing in the institute's collection-room to mark the difference between "walking" and "standing" - or "holding" and "throwing".

A long time ago!

Klaus

[Steve Moulding]

I forgot to mention that ISEGRIM is a web site, http://isegrim.dasr.de/isegrim_neu/test2014.php , and an Excel spreadsheet, https://www.wildwinds.com/Isegrim/

Wow...so that's ISEGRIM. What a great project! Very impressive. I'd heard it had been 'lost' recently (what happened?) but am happy to hear it lives on.

As a coin database designer you will be interesting in trying it out and seeing the pros and cons of the approach.

Definitely! Thank you, Ed.

Steve

[Steve Moulding]

Developing the descriptions was fun - and this was primarily a student's project in the beginning!
I still remember us posing in the institute's collection-room to mark the difference between "walking" and "standing" - or "holding" and "throwing".
:

Great story  What a huge amount of work that must have been. Fun though...the kind of project I'd love.

Cheers,

Steve

[Mark Fox]

Dear Steve and Board,

Here are some details about what happened to the original ISEGRIM (it is quite sad---reader discretion advised!):

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=124699.0

At the end of my series on ancient coin attribution websites (for probably E-Sylum, although I would like to also combine everything together for one of the print publications), I may add one or more parts on "extinct" websites.  There are actually quite a few when one thinks about it. 

     
Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

[helvetica]

My xls list on my wildwinds server has over 4,000 coins more than the original Isegrim. I just added half a dozen more but haven't uploaded the latest version yet. I usually upload the new version every 10 days or so.

I already have the 1844 sales catalog, which is, as I mentioned very vague, e.g.
"768 Pergamus, Antioch, Mytilene, Samos, &c.—large size" which is apparently (according to Isegrim) that BMC 220 mentioned in my first post.

Isegrim lists several coins with a"Devonshire" tag, but as I say, they do not all seem to correspond with the entries in the 1844 catalog, and the catalog does not have any plates to check for descriptions.

[Steve Moulding]

:
Here are some details about what happened to the original ISEGRIM (it is quite sad---reader discretion advised!):
:

Thank you, Mark...quite a story!

Cheers,

Steve