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Author Topic: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?  (Read 964 times)

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Offline Michael C9

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Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« on: November 27, 2021, 06:13:44 pm »
I purchased this coin from Ebay as it came with a provenance from a previous Numismatic Auction [with evidence] and was from a "reputable" seller with both a large presence on the internet and a physical shop.

The Coin is a Maurice Tiberius Solidus [Sear 478. DOC 5e]. [Picture attached]

It has a diameter of 20-22mm. No sign of clipping. Thickness 0.8mm-0.5mm. Weight 3.35g [It was quoted as 4.35g in the Auction details; but this is definitely the coin].

Specific gravity of about 18.6g/cc. My Sigma Metalytic analyser shows electrical resistance 6.35 =c96% Au.  It looks well struck and I cannot find any evidence of casting.

The auction details:  https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2602&lot=3370

Because it came from a reliable source I didn't weigh it. Now I have weighed it, I don't know what to do.

Does anyone know if genuine Byzantine solidus coin can be this far underweight? Or is this definitely a fake?

Opinions or advice gratefully accepted. Appreciate your time and expertise.

Michael


Offline Obryzum

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2021, 09:38:42 pm »
Very strange.

The coins looks genuine to me, with a nice portrait, but I cannot explain the low weight.  Are you sure your scale is accurate? 

Maurice issued lightweight solidi of different weights, but they were all supposed to be marked as lightweight.  This coin is even lighter than the OBXX 20 siliquae, which were about 3.7g.

I have a similar unusually lightweight coin of Justin II, but the difference is that mine has several test cuts from antiquity -- it seems the coin was suspected from the beginning.  Yours, on the other hand, shows virtually no wear. 

Legally you should be able to return the coin on the ground that the seller improperly described a critical attribute of the coin.  You thought you were bidding on a 4.35g coin, when in fact the coin is only 3.35g.     

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2021, 07:38:41 am »
As suggested, I would first weigh the coin with another scale. The big auction outfits rarely mis-describe their coins.

If you know the house, auction and lot number, look up the catalogue and check their description to see if matches the actual coin.
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2021, 11:27:34 am »
Does anyone know if genuine Byzantine solidus coin can be this far underweight? 

Normal weight Maurice Tiberius solidii from Constantinople which are not clipped, holed, etc., are not seen at 3.35 grams unless there is a serious problem, which is not evident from the photos of your coin. There are none listed in DOC with a weight close to 3.35 grams. While you seem like the kind of person that has their scale well calibrated, I would check it with a modern coin of known weight. If you live in the US, the 5-cent nickel in your pocket change weighs exactly 5.00 grams.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2021, 12:40:50 pm »
By the way, if you measured the SG of the coin yourself, as opposed to parroting that figure from the sales ad, it is in line with the gold percentage you measured. 24 karat is 19.3 usually, and 96% would be about at your measured value. That's a good sign.
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Offline Michael C9

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2021, 01:45:32 am »
Thank you so much for your replies. I was hoping for expert evidence of the odd underweight solidus. But there we are. The facts are the facts.

I have seen some other underweights on online Auctions. They may be fakes too.  While the great majority of solidi are 4.2g-4.5g, examples include of 3.35g[Nobles], 3.45g [CNG], 3.45g [London Coins], 3.4g [Vcoin] and even an example on the Harvard Art Museum site of a solidus weighing 3.5g. Some look worn. Apart from these examples there doesn't appear to any backing for underweight solidii.

My scales are accurate [I have two different brands] and have checked them against other coins. They have a manufacturers 0.02g margin of error but are usually weigh the same as other dealers I have bought from..

The specific gravity was my calculation. 3.35g/0.18g= 18.6 g/cc [with mathematical error: about 18-20g/cc]. Backed by Sigma Metalytics reading,  I am happy with the gold content. My other Maurice Tib Solidus is the same S.G. using the same scales [but heavier coin!]

Unfortunately I bought this coin from a dealer, who bought it from the auction 4 years ago. I have the ticket. The photos on the Auction site are identical [I & L Goldberg Auction 104 Lot 3370]. It can be view on Numisbids website. https://www.numisbids.com/n.php?p=lot&sid=2602&lot=3370 .

I am at a loss! It certainly looks real. I don't know how it lost its weight. I wish I could! Many thanks again for your thoughts. Michael

Offline Kevin D

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Re: Is my Maurice Tiberius Solidus fake or just underweight?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2021, 12:11:18 pm »
I have seen some other underweights on online Auctions. They may be fakes too.  While the great majority of solidi are 4.2g-4.5g, examples include of 3.35g[Nobles], 3.45g [CNG], 3.45g [London Coins], 3.4g [Vcoin] and even an example on the Harvard Art Museum site of a solidus weighing 3.5g. Some look worn. Apart from these examples there doesn't appear to any backing for underweight solidii.

Regarding the above cited weights, we can't discount the possibility of typo errors.

 

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