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Author Topic: Reliable source of unclean coins  (Read 11009 times)

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Coin Seeker

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Reliable source of unclean coins
« on: January 09, 2013, 09:52:44 pm »
Does anyone have a reliable source of unclean coins? I think I struck out on my first attempt at [REMOVED BY ADMIN] I know eBay is also a possibility as is amazon. They seem to be the same sellers on both sites. Can someone even possibly recommend a decent eBay seller? I'm still quite new to this and trying to work out all the kinks that I'm running into. Thanks in advance everyone!

Oliver

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 11:11:05 pm »
The owner of this site also has a coin shop look at the link at the top as he sells decent uncleaned Roman coins and he is very reputable so I would recommend buying his as you get what you pay for
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Offline Mark Z

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2013, 12:59:58 am »
Oliver,

This question comes up a lot from new collectors.

I agree with Adrian: buying uncleaned coins is the same as a bet but FORVM is as reputable as it gets. Plus, if you're going to spend any amount of time here, it is nice to pour a little $$$ into the site from time to time :)

Buying uncleaned coins is a "good news, bad news" proposition. While you are not likely to find that needle in the haystack you were hoping for, your attribution skills will increase exponentially (as long as you are willing to sit hunchbacked over RIC or some other attribution device for several hours to the point of a sore neck and bleary eyes).

I admit that I have found a couple of fairly nice and rare coins in my cleaning days but in comparison to the number of average LRBs and outright bums I've cleaned, it's a pretty small percentage.

The better answer is to stay away from uncleaned coins as you will most likely not find that needle in a haystack you were hoping for. The long-time top-flight collectors here will tell you to find an era or an area of collecting that you find interesting and concentrate your time, energy and $$$ on that.

Remember, when it comes to uncleaned coins, you and I are the "end users" and all the good stuff is long gone.

Regards,
mz


Offline cliff_marsland

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2013, 01:18:42 am »
I concur with the others.  It all depends on your motivations.  If it's to embark on discovery and be an archaeologist of sorts, then cleaning coins is a very wonderful route.

Insofar as the actual quality, you'll be better off buying regular coins.  I've tried uncleaneds in the past.  I was rather incompetent at it, but they were mostly low-grade LRBs.  The only earlier one was a Nerva as (holed) and there were very few Antoninianii.  The vast majority were AE3s from the 370s.  This was well before I discovered Forum.

My recommendation is collect already cleaned coins in the period that you have interest in.

Gallienus Antoninianii are good beginner's coins.  They're plentiful and cheap in high grade for the common issues.


Offline SC

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 03:36:03 am »
Welcome Oliver,

Just to add a few warnings/comments.  Beware what many say in their marketing. 

A "hoard" is a group of coins that were deposited together in ancient times.  In many cases they are all of the same size/denomination and all from a few short years though there are exceptions.  But in any event a large group that includes Greek, Roman, Provincial, Nabataean, Judaean, Islamic and Byzantine is not/not a hoard.  That is a group of coins found by a detectorist or a group of detectorists and sold together.  True hoards on the market are rare.

Secondly, uncleaned coins are rarely truly uncleaned.  Likewise claims of unpicked coins are rarely true.  It may mean that the seller did not pick through them but that does not mean that others before they got them did not.  Even fully dirt covered coins where you can't see any details will have been picked over as the finders sort out larger ones, etc.

Often entire large groups are "washed" early in the supply chain either in water or in chemicals to remove the soft dirt and more and to reveal details.  This allows them to be easily picked through but also damages the patinas.

This relates to the images you posted on your other thread.  Those coins appear to have been pre-washed.  What remains is a mix of bare metal - though darkened - and flaky tan patina and thicker, crustier, porous green that is/was the patina.  Maybe in their original state (fresh from the field) more of the patina could have been saved but maybe not - many end up like this anyway.  In any event they are not hopeless coins.  It just means that you should clean them without worrying about retaining the original patina as little is left.  You should focus on removing stuff that obscures the design while not harming or scratching the metal itself.  You could end up with a bright shiny coin that will darken naturally over time or that you can artificially darken one day.  However, if you have revealed the design and can then identify it that will be fine.  With a coin in this state you should mainly think of how you can improve what you got.

I have to agree with others that the better way to build up a collection is to buy cleaned coins - cleaned but unsorted or unattributed are the best deal.  But that said I also love the cleaning of uncleaned coins - the challenge, the surprise, the sense of "ownership" you get with a coin you have cleaned and revealed yourself.

Definitely check out Joe's uncleaned lotss

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/catalog/roman-and-greek-coins.asp?vpar=869&pos=0#Uncleaned%20Coins

and consider the uncleaned coin contest too.

Good luck.

Shawn


 

 
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Offline areich

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 04:07:13 am »
In any case, you're better off buying small lots of uncleaned coins from a picture of the actual coin. Most uncleaned sellers' pictures do not show what you actually get. They show heaps of coins with some good ones carefully placed on top, they may show lots the seller had in better days but most likely not the coins you actually get.

You can buy coins that can be cleaned (but are not truly uncleaned in the sense that they're fully covered in original dirt) or you can buy bulk lots to identify that will contain the occasional small gem that is rare or interesting (but nothing actually worth lot of money).

But the days where you could buy good quality uncleaned coins are long over.
Andreas Reich

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 06:07:14 am »
i personally would advise against buying uncleaned lots as they are all sifted through before

can i also point your attention to this

[REMOVED BY ADMIN]

[REMOVED BY ADMIN]

"Unclean and unsorted Roman coins from a completely untouched 8 Kg Hoard that we have affectionately named the Juno Hoard located in the UK.

This is a typical Roman unclean and unmolested hoard that was inspected and bought complete because of its varied and unsorted contents. There is a good variety of mainly Roman coins here. It benefits from a good amount type and size of coins."

if this is true they would be breaking the law as any hoard of that size would have to be reported to the coroner under the treasure act


plus

"With more than a few valuable City Coins, Ptolemy’s, Greek, Byzantine, clearly visible and larger, thicker and more valuable Roman coins unmistakeably in this large hoard"

greek , byzantine and ptolemaic coins never circulated in the UK at that time !

Coin Seeker

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 07:31:42 am »
Wow! Thank you all for the great advice. I wish I would have came here before purchasing from [REMOVED BY ADMIN] I have a lot to think about. Clean coins would be the way to go it seems but for me and my step daughter we get a lot of enjoyment just cleaning the coins. As the saying goes, "the journey is half the fun". Plus it give me and my step daughter time to hang out. I think we love cleaning the coins and seeing what we got and then attributing them more then the actual collecting part. I thought I came well prepared for this hobby before I spent my first dollar on unclean coins but I see I have a ways to go. I'm just glad, with you good people, I don't feel me and Minerva have to do it alone.

Oliver

rick2

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 07:55:06 am »
on top of that i think his prices are quite high for uncleaned , i think you can do better with lots listed here or on ebay

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 08:10:16 am »
In one of the pics you can see what looks to be a square silver coin probably Indian 18th or 19th cent must have been a really odd hoard that one
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Coin Seeker

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 09:15:06 am »
Adrian, really, an Indian coin? What would that be doing in a batch of roman, Greek and Byzantine coins?

Offline Adrian W

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2013, 09:16:52 am »
Exactly thats our point this is just a bunch of coins thrown together from all kinds of different sources, I have seen that before where peole seed them with these small silver coins then people can say they found silver but its not roman.
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Offline areich

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #12 on: January 10, 2013, 01:46:54 pm »
Which wouldn't be such a bad thing if they were honest about it and the price appropriate. Uncleaned Romans can get tedious after a while. Now, in theory there are countless types, variants and many different emperors to be found. That is not even counting the very rare, rare or even just rarish ones but most coins even remotely interesting will have been taken out.

But it (collecting ancient coins) is a great hobby, no matter which way you choose to go with it.
You should take this offer:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=85255
Andreas Reich

Offline SC

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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2013, 04:41:47 am »
Square, or squarish coins, in bronze mostly but also in silver, that appear in such "Holy land" lots are usually Islamic.  Generally Mamluk and Ottoman though occassionally earlier.

There are several in your lot Oliver that appear to be medieval Islamic.

The nice thing about such lots (lot is better term than hoard for this type of thing) is that you get exposed to a wide variety of coin types including Islamic, Judaean, Nabatean, Byzantine, etc that you don't get from a lot with a European origin.  Fun to look them up and browse through the pages of lesser know periods of history.

Shawn
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Re: Reliable source of unclean coins
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2013, 09:10:26 am »
Thanks Otlichnik! Yes one seems like it is Arabic. Me and Minerva were trying to identify it but its difficult not knowing the symbols/characters on the coin. We did suspect it to be From the MamlukmDynasty but can't seem to attribute it just yet. We're still trying though.

 

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