Ouch - I'm a bad collector (Sept Sev ID)

[Ghengis_Jon]

I received this e-mail (excerpt) over the weekend (at my private e-mail, not a Forvm PM).   I'm  pleased that the FORVM has become such a resource for the ancient coin community, but I didn't realize what vast influence my feeble attempt at attribution has on the world at large.


"...and it is most definately NOT RIC 144b.  Where do you get off labelling it as such?  Others use this site as a tool and your stupid failure to identify the coin not only makes you look like an idiot, but makes other people who reference your coin look as stupid as you are.  Do the world a favor and find another hobby..."


Yikes!  All over a coin posted in my gallery!?!  But let me be the first to admit it, I asked someone else to ID the coin for me.  This denarius I found in a lot of uncleaned coins, back in the 'Golden Age' (pre-2000).  The black patina was so thick and coarse that it did not even register as silver on my metal detector until after I broke through the crud.  Not owning a reference on Severian silver,  I asked for attribution help and 144b was what I got back.


Since my very soul is now in danger of eternal damnation due to an incorrect coin attribution, can someone enlighten me and rescue my eternal geist from the flames of Hades?

[maridvnvm]

There are two possible attributions for this coin. RIC 144b (Rome mint) and RIC 516 (Laodicea-ad-Mare). Both are identical in their detail and can only be distinguished by their style. Your coin looks to be from the Rome mint (it doesn't look to be eastern to me) and is therefore RIC 144b.

I have taken the liberty of illustrating with images from the Barry Murphy collection:-

RIC 144b:-


RIC 516:-


Rest well. The flamer is the one whose sould should be rent apart in the deepest pits of Hades.
Regards,
Martin

[Raymond]

the retort was nasty because the writer was jealous of your consumate cleaning skills and of your luck in unearthing such a beatiful coin!
Raymond 

[snorkelpaleis]

"...and it is most definately NOT RIC 144b.  Where do you get off labelling it as such?  Others use this site as a tool and your stupid failure to identify the coin not only makes you look like an idiot, but makes other people who reference your coin look as stupid as you are.  Do the world a favor and find another hobby..."

Is it so hard to read and to know the number one rule of this site 

BE NICE

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=10852.0

[whitetd49]

Actually, that is a pretty funny message.  Apparently I should have quit the hobby about 100 times for my misattributions.  I wonder if anyone else here claims perfection?

[Barabus]

 It appears that the wing tip on your reverse is after the GG,which is the same as on the 516 example.

[maridvnvm]

The legend breaks and positioning of wing tip etc. have no impact on the attribution. The style of the engraving, particularly of the bust are the indicators of Rome vs. Laodicea.
Martin

[fordicus]

I vote for displaying the person's e-mail address for public ridicule/forum banning 

[Ghengis_Jon]

That's a thought, but a reluctant no on 2 counts:

1.  I abide by the "Be Nice" rule.
2.  I will not stoop to the flamer's level.


I will have sweet dreams, however, knowing my Gallery is the basis of worldwide coin attribution... 

[mdelvalle]

Ghengis_Jon
In my humble opinion who has sent you the @mail is an idiot. I believe that regrettably it doesn't deserve another epithet.
Saludos 
Mario

[Rupert]

In my army time, when some sergeant had such a bad temper as the writer of that mail, we said, well, he probably had trouble with his wife last weekend (the words we used to specify the trouble were not nice enough to quote them here).

Rupert

[Bamba123]

Well I guess when I finally get off my behind and put a gallery up, his keyboard will melt

[Rupert]

Well, that's his problem not yours, is it?

Rupert

[Heliodromus]

Ghengis_Jon,
I hope you at least refer him to this thread. Maybe also suggest he switch to knitting or some other hobby that doesn't get him so riled up! 

Ben

[Rupert]

KNITTING? Good lord, I wouldn't want to see (and hear) him dropping a few stitches...

Rupert

[Bamba123]

I would be afraid to having any sharp pointy things with that temper.  Personally everyone that has put up galleries has done all of us a service.  The time and effort in sharing is nothing but commendable.  If nothing else that email has given us all a good laugh and I would bet my last denarius he is kicking the dog at this moment and as embarassed as can be...

Here is hoping that he sends another email apologizing and realizes that constructive comments go a lot further!!

Jim

[slokind]

I agree with 'whitetd'; this is amusing.  The spectacle of someone who commits the sin of copying out others' citations, knowing that others are fallible humans, just as he/she is (or is it flattering to assume such self-knowledge?), blaming the person who only meant to be helpful, who then himself freely admits that he had sought help himself, is a highly comical illustration of what is so often wrong with what is made to pass for 'scholarship' (real scholars try to get citations right, certainly, but distinguish correct citation from the meat of scholarship).  It is the medieval reduction of auctoritas that Umberto Eco sent up so deliciously in The Name of the Rose.  In a nutshell.  How many times do I see someone who really knows a category of coins carefully really identify an unknown coin only to be badgered for someone's list number, which is only useful if the listing itself was sufficiently well informed.  This is different from using Cohen numbers to anchor references, of course, or AMNG numbers to cover the specimens already known then, often with anchors to Mionnet or Sestini, for example.  Pat L.

[mauseus]

Hi,

I keep meaning to post something on the book by Gitler and Ponting who, through the chemical analyses of Severan silver postulate three distinct compositions for alloy at Rome, Emesa and Laodicea. One of the things they then go on to notice is that a few coins of probable Rome style had alloy compositions consistent with Laodicea; thus the line between Rome and Laodicea can be extremely blurred taking their work.

The e-mail you received was unjustified
.
With kind regards,

Mauseus

[Scotvs Capitis]

If that fellow gets so abusively riled up over a hobby (let's remember the perspective, it's a HOBBY) then I would not want to be around that socially inept character in more gravitous situations.

What an pathetic person. 

[cars100]

Hello fellow coin collectors;
I put a gallery together to show off my coins to other collectors, and hope the many other more knowledgable collectors would correct any errors I may have made. (and we all do).
I do not always have the best examples, or in some cases, not even a good example of a coin, but I am always happy to share what I have with other collectors. Galleries should not be a competition of who has the best or most perfectly attributed coins, but a way for ALL coin collectors to share their treasured collections with other liked minded people. The guy who sent you that E-mail has completly lost his/her perspective.
Ray

[maridvnvm]

I have been thinking about this thread and it might simply be that he doesn't understand what the reference means. RIC 144b is a shorthand form of RIC Volume IV Part 1, Septimius Severus 144b and you need to understand the context within which the attribution is given to fully understand it. If this is not understood then there is quite some scope for mis-understanding as there are several coins that are attributed in the shorthand form of RIC 144b (Caracalla, Herennius Etruscus and others). Not understanding the short form of the reference and seeing another coin attributed as RIC 144b might cause this confusion. It doesn't excuse the rudeness in the message to you but might explain the root of the mis-understanding.

The following coin is also RIC 144b or more correctly RIC Volume IV Part 1 Caracalla 144b :-



Regards,
Martin

[Steve Minnoch]

I wouldn't mind an outside bet that I know who sent that e-mail.  Some people have "form".

Steve

[Ghengis_Jon]

Jim - If my 'friend of short temper' wants to see riled, then let ME catch him kicking a dog...

Martin - Thanks for the expanded attribution.  I'll correct my gallery.

Steve - The email came from a hotmail account with the 'name' a jumble of letters and numbers.  Either he killed the account or turned on a spam blocker as my reply got kicked back as undeliverable.  I have no idea who the oh-so-knowledgeable-one is.

[Steve Minnoch]

That's got to be close to the ultimate in cowardice.

Steve

[Johnny]

LOL   I hope he doesn't look at my gallery ,  I have a multitude of mis-attributed, partly attributed and other non-attributed coins.

Mabey  he used you attribution to sell a coin,  and got upset  when someone noticed the mistake,  and  just out of spite, blames you for his incompetence

either way,  it was certainly uncalled for and totally inappropriate