Author Topic: Authentication Help please (Read 1548 times)

Jon P · « **on:** March 19, 2021, 03:58:11 am »

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. I was reccomended to come here by someone on reddit to help me find further info on if my coin is real. I'm not a very experienced collector in ancient coins. I bought an Athenian Tetradrachm on an ebay auction about a year ago. Can you please take a look at it and let me know if it looks real or not? I don't have the most accurate scale (only weighs to neareat gram), but I got ~16g, and all the other measurements match with the Numista desceibed ones.
Any help is greatly appreciated!

Kevin D · « **Reply #1 on:** March 19, 2021, 11:36:59 am »

To my eyes, your coin in question has a strange look about it. This could be a trick of the lighting and photography. Perhaps a jeweler would give you an accurate weight for no charge.

You can check the list linked below to see if your seller is there.

FORVM's NOTORIOUS FAKE SELLERS LIST (NFSL)

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=18502.0

Link to a webpage with interesting information:

http://coins.reidgold.com/owls/forgeries.html

Jon P · « **Reply #2 on:** March 19, 2021, 01:38:22 pm »

I will try that, but would that really provide so much proof? A fake could be made to the correct weight, no?

Jon P · « **Reply #3 on:** March 19, 2021, 02:50:12 pm »

Also, what is the accepted weight range for this coin? Numista says 16.85g, but I know that with coins this old weight varies. What number should I be looking for?

Kevin D · « **Reply #4 on:** March 19, 2021, 03:14:05 pm »

The weight is another piece of evidence, but not the end all and be all of evidence. You said your scale weighs 16 grams, but it only reads in one gram increments. If a reading that gives a more accurate weight shows 16.50 grams, that is within the normal weight for these coins (around 17.20 grams). If you find out your coin is below 16.3 grams, that would start to become a concern. If it is 15.6 grams (given as 16 grams by your scale) then that is more of a concern. However, even at a lower weight, it could still be a genuine ancient coin, but one that has undergone 'crystalization' which in addition to making it lose some of its weight, often makes it more fragile (more easily chipped or broken). The weight is just another piece of the evidence puzzle.

I am not able to condemn the coin with certainty. I just think it looks strange compared to other examples. I took a cursory look through my copy of Svoronos's Corpus and I didn't see any other examples with obverse lips like on your coin, nor a lower fore hair loop with such a wave as seen on your coin. There are so many images in this book that I could easily have missed this.

Looking at some of the better fakes shown on the webpage I linked to previously, you can see that it is not always an easy call to make. Even more so when you don't have the coin in hand.

Is your eBay seller on the list I linked to previously?

Meepzorp · « **Reply #5 on:** March 19, 2021, 07:24:01 pm »

Hi folks,

I agree with KD.

This coin has a strange look to it, but I can't quite condemn it. I felt this way when I looked at it yesterday, but I didn't post because I wanted to see what other Forum members had to say about it. KD basically wrote what I was going to write yesterday. He confirmed what was in my mind.

To my mind, it isn't a blatant counterfeit, but there is definitely something "off" about it.

Meepzorp

Altamura · « **Reply #6 on:** March 20, 2021, 03:58:13 am »

In my eyes it is a fake, I don't trust it

.
The surface does look strange with lots of little holes.
The style is a bit off, see e.g the legs of the owl which are too thick and too short.

Regards

Altamura

Pekka K · « **Reply #7 on:** March 20, 2021, 04:55:12 am »

I see no signs of wear, to add opinions above.

Pekka K

Grant H · « **Reply #8 on:** March 20, 2021, 03:44:27 pm »

I also think that its not real,the deep reverse incuse is usually seen in the more archaic coins of Athens

djmacdo · « **Reply #9 on:** March 20, 2021, 05:01:37 pm »

There is another from the same dies on the infamous auction site with a beginning bid of $36.00. Suspicious.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #10 on:** March 20, 2021, 07:12:36 pm »

From memory, without opening any books and researching matches, I don't recall any genuine coins with this particular style. In particular, the loops of Athena's hair seem strange, her lips seem strange, the A on the reverse seems odd and the owl's tail seems strange too. I strongly suspect it is fake, struck or pressed with modern dies.

Jon P · « **Reply #11 on:** March 20, 2021, 09:18:43 pm »

@KevinD - I got it weighed on an accurate coin scale and it came out to 16.38g. It also has a crack that is rough and grainy silver on the inside, which I heard is constintent with a strike. Could the pitting and sharp condition be caused by a thorough cleaning, or does that only say fake?

Jon P · « **Reply #12 on:** March 20, 2021, 09:19:43 pm »

Also the seller was not on the list.

Kevin D · « **Reply #13 on:** March 20, 2021, 10:06:15 pm »

Quote from: Jon P on March 20, 2021, 09:18:43 pm

@KevinD - I got it weighed on an accurate coin scale and it came out to 16.38g. It also has a crack that is rough and grainy silver on the inside, which I heard is constintent with a strike. Could the pitting and sharp condition be caused by a thorough cleaning, or does that only say fake?

First, I must say that there are other posts on this thread, from people who have more experience than I in identifying fake coins (possibly every poster). One that I am certain has more experience with this is Joe, who has advised:

"I strongly suspect it is fake, struck or pressed with modern dies."

This would account for edge splits that look like the real thing; they would be real, but produced by dies that are not ancient.

I don't believe a strong cleaning would cause the pitting seen on your coin. If in fact your coin is struck or pressed with modern dies, then perhaps the pitting on the coin is from air bubbles in the flan when it was cast.

I was pondering the possibility of your coin being an ancient imitation, or ancient forgery, some of which have considerable value as collector coins today, but the ancient examples of these look more like an original than does your coin (at least to my eyes).

Pekka K · « **Reply #14 on:** March 21, 2021, 02:53:06 am »

Obverse is very similar to Bulgarian fake on"Athenian Owl Forgeries" page.

Pekka K

djmacdo · « **Reply #15 on:** March 21, 2021, 08:44:53 am »

Once again, Pekka produces the answer!

Kevin D · « **Reply #16 on:** March 21, 2021, 09:58:50 am »

Quote from: Pekka K on March 21, 2021, 02:53:06 am

Obverse is very similar to Bulgarian fake on"Athenian Owl Forgeries" page.

Pekka K

Good find, Pekka. Looks like the same obverse die.

Embarrassed I didn't see it earlier...

This coin is on the Reid Goldsborough webpage that I linked to earlier in this thread (reply #1), but unfortunately the URL is broken at this time (the Forum website is auto-correcting to the old non-working URL, see FAKE LINKS thread for a report on this).

Kevin D · « **Reply #17 on:** March 21, 2021, 06:15:54 pm »

Jon P,

The discovery by Pekka K of a known forgery that looks so similar to the obverse of your coin that they might be struck from the same die, does not bode well for your coin being genuine.

I linked to the web page that discusses this known forgery, with photos and text, in my first reply to you, but I didn’t realize the link was not working until last night.

Until a working URL can be provided, you can find the web page online by copying and pasting this entire link into your browser:

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=&bih=&q=Fake+Athens+Tetradrachm&btnG=Google+Search&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYFfQZROgM67PQL_ejPSWnSSPDQa6sa2O&gbv=2

The second link on the Google search page is the one you want: rg ancients info > owls > forgeries

Scroll down the page until you find the coin image that matches the one Pekka K has provided in this thread. The text discussing this coin is below the image.

Joe Sermarini · « **Reply #18 on:** March 21, 2021, 10:05:57 pm »

http://rg.ancients.info/owls/forgeries.html

I removed the forwarding, which originally forwarded from the link above to a once new replacement URL, but now defunct URL.

News:

Author Topic: Authentication Help please (Read 1548 times)