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Offline JarretGax

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Coin Classes?
« on: December 19, 2017, 10:30:11 pm »
     New member here, Ive only been collecting ancient coins for about 4 months now.  I only just found this site 3 weeks ago, however Ive spent most of my free time outside of work reading articles and looking at coins from the huge selection of info found here on this site.  I never realized that ancient coins were attainable at a reasonable price, Ive always thought that i would have to go to a museum to see any up close.  In short Im fully addicted and wish I could absorb all the knowledge that can be found on the topic. 

     Just the sheer amount of information that ancient coins entail is quite daunting.  Are there any online courses that can be taken for relatively cheap?  Or perhaps would anyone want to be my Yoda and teach me the ways of the coin?  Give me home work or assign a topic for research and make me write a paper, i don't care!  Im very interested in Roman coinage but love the artwork of the Greek coinage, it all pretty much fascinates me.  Ive read most of the articles here and im working my way chronologically backward through the Forum, but it seems like i need to become a historian on ancient times.  I'm ok with that. 

I bought my first coin from the Auction recently and I have no qualms about its authenticity but im wondering have fakes slipped by through the auctions here in the past?   
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

Offline traveler

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2017, 12:14:19 am »
Hello,

There's a wealth of information on Forvm but it can be too much to absorb you've pointed out. It will help also if you have a specialisation area in mind, but it may be too early for that.

A good general beginner resource is the Oxford Handbook of Greek and Roman Coinage / William E. Metcalf.

My personal advice is to collect coins which appeal to you. You will learn a lot about the coins just from researching them. If you're really interested in a specific topic, there are academic articles floating around the internet for deeper study.

Offline peterpil19

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2017, 05:13:37 am »
Hi Jarret,

Welcome to the discussion board. More importantly, welcome to the hobby!

I am not familiar with online coin classes. However I can reflect on what helped me when I first learned about ancient coins and what may have been helpful if I had someone to guide me through it.

I would start with understanding the basics. You can easily get lost in the detail.

Denominations. Easier to navigate the terrain if you know what a sestertius, ass, dupondius, drachm, tetradrachm etc. is.

Different 'eras' of Roman emperors and general understanding of different Roman emperors. The FORVM shop categorises roman emperors in this way, which is a handy quick guide, if you are trying to remember who is an 'Adoptive Emperor'. Many collect coins of certain emperor. You might choose to do the same. So handy to develop a knowledge of which exist and which may appeal to you.

Difference between: Roman Republic, Roman Provincial / Greek Imperial, and Roman Imperial.

Difference between different Greek Kingdoms: Macedon Kingdom. Ptolemaic Kingdom. Seleucid Kingdom. etc.

Different greek cities / regions which minted coins. Go to wildwinds.com at the following link: http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/i.html
You can also browse greek coins in the FORVM shop by geography.

Initially helpful to me:

'Handbook of Ancient Greek and Roman Coins: An Official Whitman Guidebook Paperback' by Zander H. Klawans. A short affordable text which exposed me to the various kinds of greek and roman coins. By memory there is a short biography at the back for each Roman Emperor.

I followed this up by buying David R. Sear's Greek Coins and Their Values. FORVM Shop usually has this in stock.

Dough Smith's excellent website on ancient coins (now hosted by FORVM): https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/
It covers many different areas, from grading through to photography.

www.romancoin.info
Many start with late roman coins (I certainly did). From this site you can learn the basics of identifying legends, emperors and reverse types and thus attributing your coins. The accessibility of late romans in higher grades makes them a great choice for beginners to the hobby.

This discussion board has been of invaluable assistance to me - both from reading historical posts on various subjects, following the fakes board and improving my ability to detect fakes, through to asking questions, or posting a coin for comment and learning something which I did not previously know.

Finally, I have plugged the FORVM shop above several times and this is intentional. The FORVM discussion board and all related resources are made available and supported through the shop which Joe, the proprietor, operates. A great place to start in building your collection and a place to regularly return to and find new coins to add to your collection.

Hope this is of some service to you despite it not answering your primary question.

Peter

Offline museumguy

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2017, 07:23:10 am »
Welcome,

Buy the books, many of which can be purchased here on FORVM, go to coins shows and talk to the dealers (many are very willing to share information with you), and visit these boards regularly because the collective knowledge right here is greater than any class you were to take if such a class exists.  There are plenty of Yodas right here and very willing to assist.  May be fouree be with you....or not.....depending.

Steve S.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 08:15:55 am »
Ancient Coin Collecting 101

Click on the blue text. Blue text indicates a link to more information.
Joseph Sermarini
Owner, President
FORVM ANCIENT COINS

Offline Molinari

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 11:30:08 am »
Welcome, Jarret.  I remember having the same feeling when I first started--feeling amazed ancient coins were affordable.  Zander Klawan's book is indeed an excellent introduction, as Peter said.  I would start with that.

It would help to know the Greek alphabet, of course.  So your homework is to learn it :)  Lucky for you, Greek coin inscriptions are all in caps and there are no accents. As you advance you'll find interesting variations in coins traditionally called "Greek": some might show Oscan or Etruscan influence, for instance, or Phoenician coinage, or Iberian inscriptions. Lots of fun all around.

Post lots of questions here, too. I certainly recommend buying a few bulk lots of cleaned, attributable coins (save up a few hundred if you have to).  Attributing coins yourself is the best introduction to ancient coins.  Joe (the FORVM owner), has lots of bulk lots.  These are different from "uncleaned" coins, which are usually junk.


Offline JarretGax

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 02:57:49 pm »
Thank you for the great advice, I'll start with the Greek alphabet right away.  I tried to find a online version of the book that was recommended:  Oxford hand book of Greek and Roman coinage, however the one place that I could locate it online is being difficult.  It's like 45$ in Amazon for a hard copy, I'm just wondering if there is a better way.

I'm especially interested in the Roman world and coinage, but from what I've learned Greek culture is part of the foundation of Roman culture.  So I feel like I need to learn both theaters of coinage, I know this is a monumental task but I'm still in my early 30s so I might be able to accomplish my goal.

Thank you everyone for the kind words and encouragement, I greatly appreciate it!
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

Offline Molinari

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 03:31:25 pm »
As you will soon learn, there are many Roman coins with Greek inscriptions!

Offline JBF

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 06:12:35 pm »
I enjoyed Wayne Sayles books, the first, general one, and the second, Greek one specifically.  He has a few pet practices, he doesn't think "nice style" means anything, but prefers like "Celtic style," attaching a cultural description.  Of course, most collectors use "nice style" to mean artistic dies.  He also uses Romaion instead of Byzantine, for the Byzantines would have never called themselves "Byzantine."  He has his points but he is trying to swim up stream on these issues, indeed probably up a waterfall.  His books are called, Ancient Coin Collecting, ....

I don't know whether the ANA or ANS has a video library, they might have some, but of course you would probably have to be a member to borrow from them.  I don't know what is on youtube or other video sharing networks.

I like David Sear's books on Greek Coins and the Values, the prices are way out of date, but as far as seeing the range of coins, it does alright.  If a general dealer has only one reference (two volumes) to Greek coinage, it will usually be David Sear's book.

My own pet theories involve Pythagoras and the incuse coinage of Magna Graecia.  Pythagoras' father was a gem engraver, and so Pythagoras would have been trained in the family business, giving him the ability to carve dies, such as those of the unusual reverse incuse types found on the Achaean coinage of M.G.  Some of the obverses are very implicit in their geometry.  My articles can be found on academia.edu, and a little bit elsewhere on this site.

Offline JarretGax

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 08:04:47 pm »
Quote
My own pet theories involve Pythagoras and the incuse coinage of Magna Graecia.  Pythagoras' father was a gem engraver, and so Pythagoras would have been trained in the family business, giving him the ability to carve dies, such as those of the unusual reverse incuse types found on the Achaean coinage of M.G.  Some of the obverses are very implicit in their geometry.  My articles can be found on academia.edu, and a little bit elsewhere on this site.

That is a fascinating theory, I was reading about Pythagoras just a couple of weeks ago and did not read anything about this, makes me realize more that ive really only scratched the surface of the ancient world. I'll have to look up your articles.
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

Offline esnible

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 10:29:46 pm »
I tried to find a online version of the book that was recommended:  Oxford hand book of Greek and Roman coinage, however the one place that I could locate it online is being difficult.  It's like 45$ in Amazon for a hard copy, I'm just wondering if there is a better way.

Perhaps a nearby library?  Try http://www.worldcat.org/title/oxford-handbook-of-greek-and-roman-coinage/oclc/695560151

Offline JarretGax

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 10:42:46 pm »
I just looked my zip is 96701 and the nearest library that has a copy is 2300 miles away. :/
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 11:22:27 pm »

Doug Smith's excellent website on ancient coins (now hosted by FORVM): https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/
It covers many different areas, from grading through to photography.


While I appreciate peterpil19's mention of my site, I'll point out that the amount of online material now available is huge and you should be able to find enough to keep you busy for more than a normal life.  You will need to pick and choose what to read first.  Google will help find free information that will help you develop questions to ask here on Forvm.

On my site, I recommend reading my series on vocabulary of ancient coins since it will help you understand what others post and form questions that will be clear to those who would help
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/voc.html

Don't be afraid to ask either in the appropriate Forvm section of by private messages.  Don't ask things like 'What is it worth?' or 'How can I get rich with coins?' and you might just find the help you seek

Offline JarretGax

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2017, 02:24:35 am »
Quote
On my site, I recommend reading my series on vocabulary of ancient coins since it will help you understand what others post and form questions that will be clear to those who would help.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/voc.html

That is an excellent article, Im not sure how I missed it, a very good read.. I even took notes!

In your article you mention the Reduced didrachm but did not elaborate, i understand that its a lower weight but why is it so light?

Were they both supposed to be the same denomination just varying weights?

Quote
For a subject 'dead' for millennia, ancient numismatics is quite dynamic.

I really like this observation, I laughed. Seems true though.
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2017, 06:05:57 am »
In general weight standards is a complex and specialized subject.  Some coins were issued over a period of many years and the weights tend to go down as inflation occurred.  Remember some of these denominations were 'current' for 500+ years so it is not unusual to see a modifier like 'reduced' or 'heavy' or 'light' applied by students who do not have a full understanding of the details.  We have very, very few records tracking weight standards and even the names for coins are most often fabricated by students of the subject over the last few centuries.  We do the best we can but must realize there will be things that require further study by numismatists.

I'm off for a few days so may not be online much.  Merry Christmas to all and we will hope to resume in the new year.

Offline stevex6

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2017, 07:27:26 am »
Mentor, I hope that you and yours have a nice and merry holidays

Cheers

Offline Gil-galad

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2018, 12:22:10 pm »
I never thought I'd be able to give new people advice until lately, after six years of collecting ancients. lol

I started like you have which is from scratch with no coins and no knowledge. It all started after I saw some ancient coins and learned that the coins are more available and affordable than what I imagined.

The approach I took involved online because I know no ancient coin dealers and collectors near me and I can't travel right now.

I found some forums and got to know a few people who guided me in the right direction for my budget and so that I could learn faster. Then I started reading lots of websites including Forvm Ancient Coins because this place is a one stop shop with nearly everything you could want or need for information. And access to a lot of nice coins as well.

I started purchasing a lot of Roman Imperials because they are common and affordable, as well as being nearly completely documented. You can learn to read ancient coins from a Latin letter set and the translations are pretty easy to know what a coin is saying because each has a story to tell. Then you can move on to the Greek letter set for Roman coins with Greek letters and Roman Provincial and Greek coinage which is advanced collecting and is not as easy.

I suggest a step by step progress and don't start with advanced collecting which is Roman Provincial, Greeks, Islamic and Asian coins, mostly. Doing it this way will reduce the confusion and give you a plan that you can develop on your own because everyone has their own way.

------------------------

Using books and literature as well as websites and the word of mouth from forums will accelerate the learning process. As far as websites are concerned and the same for books. Is that because of Human error not all information will be correct. Almost all from reputable websites and books will be honest and correct as best as possible. I do rely on these sites and books as well because some of them are that good.

Reading and using the RIC book volume set will help so much because it's not only a reference but also has a lot of information about some coins as well as charts. Not too affordable at all. Expensive.

An affordable book set would be ERIC II and aorta, for Roman Imperial Coinage.

A affordable bookset for Roman Provincial would be the GIC or Greek Imperial coins by Varbanov.

Sear bookset is also affordable.

There are lots of other books to get that are not really coin books persay but are helpful.

A lot of books about Mythology will help with a lot of coins reverse types that have gods on them.

A book called "A Guide to the Ancient World" helps a lot with Greek and Roman information about places in the ancient world as well as indicating if a city or province was a mint or not.

--------------------------

I also have a website that not only creates another ancient coin resource for everyone but has also accelerated the learning process as I have to research more about the coins I have and any topics I think I might want to write about.

Remember to have fun with ancient coins. It's the best advice I can give right now.

Offline Stkp

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2018, 04:48:40 pm »
In my opinion, David Van Meter's Handbook of Roman Imperial Coins, is the best possible introduction for a new collector with an interest in Roman imperials. It provides a host of information in addition to being a very basic one-volume catalog. The book, and a handful of unattributed late Roman bronze coins for hands-on experience, would be a great start -- even if one's ultimate area of collecting will not be late Roman bronzes. The book is modestly priced (for a numismatic book) and can be purchased here at FORVM. The coins can also be purchased here at FORVUM for just a few dollars each. That is how I got started years ago.

I should add that Doug Smith's articles were also a great help and inspiration, and back then, one of the few quality sources of on-line general information. Thank you, Doug.

Over time, I discovered that my interests were predominately not Roman Imperial, although I do have an Imperial niche or two. The biggest challenge is deciding what to collect, and at the beginning (or even later), there is nothing wrong with collecting a bit of this and a bit of that. ENJOY!

Stkp


Offline dougsmit

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2018, 08:02:45 am »
I agree with the recommendation of the Van Meter book.  Certainly there are 'better' books, more complete books, larger books but, for the price and for the target market, Van Meter is a good beginner book that will serve well until the reader as digested all of the material in it.  Some of the others are a bit overwhelming and place way too much emphasis on catalog numbers and too little on understanding the subject.  The buyer of Van Meter may own the book twenty years after the last time the book is referenced on a daily basis but the information it contains is a good summary of the hobby as I see it.

Offline JarretGax

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Re: Coin Classes?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 03:57:20 pm »
Thanks once again for all the advice, Doug's page has been most helpful and many of the topics are extremely interesting.  FORVM really is the best place online to learn about ancient coins hands down, I find my free time speeding by while reading everything on here.

I've also started reading all the counterfeit coin question pages starting chronologically in the early 2000's and working my way forward.  Some very fascinating discussions,  on authentication and learning about known fakes and reproductions.  I've hardly gone through 15 full pages of the 275+! People can get quite emotional in this hobby it seems, plenty of drama, plot twists and intrigue.  It's been most enjoyable read.

I know I've really only scratched the surface and it just keeps getting better.
“The more you know, the more you know you don't know.”

 

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