Different amphitheatres?

[Nico Creces]

Hello,
in relation about my topic of the Croatian arena, I have a question:

1.Could it be that there are two different types of arena's?
A type like the Colosseum, open and with a structure above the ground and another type,     with the structure partialy covered in the ground.
(I will post a picture of each.)

2. What was the reason that they built 2 sorts?

Maybe someone can help me.
Thanks,
Nico

[AncientCoins]

isnt the second a "literal" amphitheatre used for plays and speeches, etc. ?  you should be content with the fact that you actually got to go there!

andrew

[Pscipio]

Just some guesses:

a.) building it into the ground is cheaper and architectonic less difficult.

b.) building it into the ground is not always achievable. Possible reasons: ground water, sewer, etc.

c.) building it upward is more sensational and representive.

Regards
Lars

[*Alex]

Amphitheatres were commonly built with earthen banks, much cheaper than those of stone. Also they were more stable than wooden amphitheatres some of which are known to have collapsed in ancient times with catastrophic results. There are several earth bank amphitheatres still extant in Britain, to name but one province. 

Alex.

[Robert_Brenchley]

Earth banks are cheap and easy, as has been said. The Colosseum must have been massively expensive, and elaborate buildings used to collapse occasionally. I don't know how often it happened to the Romans, but church towers collapsed occasionally, notably trhe original tower of Salisbury Cathedral, which fell on top of King John's grave; the arches below the existing one are distorted from the weight of it. Then there was the famous Tay Bridge disaster in Scotland, when the original bridge gave way under a train during a storm. They probably wanted to keep things safe and simple most of the time, but in Rome they needed to show off!

[Nico Creces]

Thanks friends for your answers.
Lars, Alex and Robert are answering the same things and there is reason in it.
Seems like many "dug in " arena's survived, especially in the provinces (I heard yesterday about several preserved arena's in modern Turkey).

Andrew, about the roman theatres which are used for plays and speeches.
If I'm right (I visited one in Pula, Croatia), they are made of a half circle instead of a circle like the amphitheatre.
About 2 years ago, I visited the ancient theatre of Epidauros in Greece.
It also was made in the form of a half circle.
(I post a pic of it below )

Grtz,
Nico

[Robert_Brenchley]

There's a modern open-air theatre in the cliffs near Lands' End which is based on the design of a Roman or Greek theatre. I haven't been to a play there, but people who have say the acoustics are really good despite having the sea for a backdrop!

[Nico Creces]

When I was in Epidauros, there was a female opera singer performing (just for her fun). She was singing the "ave Maria".
And we sat on the top row and I must admit that she needn't a microphone.
It was just fantastic .
Even when people were speaking on a normal tone below, you could hear them from above.
Nico

[PeterD]

This is the other end of the scale: This amphitheatre is just outside the walls of the abandoned town of Calleva Atrebatum (Silchester), near Reading in England. The embankments were subsequently used in the 12th Century as protection for a manor house.

[Nico Creces]

If I'm getting it right, amphitheatres were normally built in the neighbourhood of a city?
The croatian arena that I visited (capacity about 5000 men) was in the middle of nowhere.
So, normally somewhere under the soil in the neighbourhood, there must be a hidden city .
Am I right?
Grtz,
Nico

[Robert_Brenchley]

Presumably; they must have expected to draw an audience of 5000 from somewhere!

[bruce61813]

There's a modern open-air theatre in the cliffs near Lands' End which is based on the design of a Roman or Greek theatre. I haven't been to a play there, but people who have say the acoustics are really good despite having the sea for a backdrop!

  Robert, it is the Minack http://www.andreas-praefcke.de/carthalia/uk/uk_porthcurno_minack.htm, i have been to it and even from the clifftop seats [with the sea gulls] the acoustics are great.
  There is a roman amphitheater in Malaga  Spain also that is easy to vist, only a modern building up against the ancient stage floor prevents it from still being used.

Bruce

[*Alex]

When I was in Epidauros, there was a female opera singer performing (just for her fun). She was singing the "ave Maria".
And we sat on the top row and I must admit that she needn't a microphone.
It was just fantastic .
Even when people were speaking on a normal tone below, you could hear them from above.
Nico

I can vouch for this, although when I was there I never heard anyone sing, there was a tourist guide doing her speil down on the "stage" and her words were perfectly clear to us seated high up near the top tiers.

Alex.

[Robert_Brenchley]

I've walked and fished along the cliffs round Porthcurno, but as I say, I've never been to a play there. I used to know the area well from when I lived in Cornwall, but I guessed that someone would know the theatre!

[AlexB]

If I'm getting it right, amphitheatres were normally built in the neighbourhood of a city?
The croatian arena that I visited (capacity about 5000 men) was in the middle of nowhere.
So, normally somewhere under the soil in the neighbourhood, there must be a hidden city .
Am I right?
Grtz,
Nico

Maybe an army camp in the locale?

Alex

[Nico Creces]

Hello Alex,
in the vicinity of the discovered arena, there was a military camp, belonging to a legion (dixit the local villagers).
I will post a pic of what the villagers called the "gate" of the camp.
Is this a roman campgate?
It looked to me as a remaining of an aquaduct.
But maybe they are right... and is it a roman campgate.
Some opinions please?
Thanks,
Nico

[Robert_Brenchley]

Those are clearly arches, and they could be a gate. If so, then what they're the gate of, I couldn't say, but if it was a camp it was obviously a permentent one, and these usually had a village or town (vicus) grow up outside. Depending on the size of the camp, if thart's what it was, you may well have found the source of the audience!

On the other hand, if they're part of an aqueduct, you'd have to explain why the design of the arches changes; you've got two similar arches, and to the right the pillar of a third, much higher one. An aqueduct would be supplying water to somewhere, and an elaborate stone one, very difficult and expensive to build, would imply the presence of a major city. Again,. you've probably found your audience, unless it's miles away.

Alternatively, could they be medieval?

[bruce61813]

Generally the Roman military camps were layed out in a square, with gates on each of the faces. Probably with single doors or entrances for defensive reasons, and to be built of stone world be the permanent winter camp. This looks a bit more like a civil structure, with entrances for many people. It doesn't look correct for an aquaduct, and they were generally made of brick.

Bruce

[Nico Creces]

So it could be the entrance of a city or town?
Grtz,
Nico

[LordBest]

Two arches would generally mean its a civic structure, see the 1st century cty gate at Autun below:
                                                LordBest.

[Pscipio]

Strange city gate  I only see a sweet cat!

[LordBest]

Fecal matter...
Here is the gate, ignore the Persian cat. The two main arches were for vehicles, one way into the city the other out, the two smaller gates on either side were for pedestrian traffic. Some Roman permanent forts had two gates leading onto the Via Praetoria, but the somewhat slender architecture of the Croatian arches leads me to think they are civic, Roman military double gates are very, very bulky.
                                                     LordBest.

[Pscipio]

Well, both are sweet, so don't worry  Autun is interesting as it reminds me of the siege of Autun by Victorinus in 269-270 AD. Imagine that he is said to have spent seven months of his short reign on sieging this town that did not recognize his rule.

Lars

[Ecgþeow]

looking at the picture, it appears that the gates were partially filled in by a stone wall near the base of the arches.  I don't know much about Roman architecture, so what do you guys think about it?  Is that a common feature of Roman arches?  (I can't see how it would be, as it is an inconvieniance to get over.)  maybe it was there to stabilize  the structure?

~Zach

[mauseus]

Hi,

Just a quick note re Roman camps. The majority of Roman camps are built to the "playing card" shape, squre ort  rectangular with rounded corners. However, there are a series of "practice" camps here in Yorkshire to the north of Pickering where, as well as a number of square camps there is also a coffin shaped one (an auxilliary cavalry camp(?)).

Regards,

Mauseus

[AlexB]

[LordBest]

[septimus]

[*Alex]

[bruce61813]

[Nico Creces]

[Robert_Brenchley]

[Nico Creces]

[Nico Creces]

[Pax Orbis]

[Robert_Brenchley]

[*Alex]

[Nico Creces]

[Pax Orbis]

[LordBest]

[*Alex]

[Pax Orbis]

[Nico Creces]

[Nico Creces]

[Robert_Brenchley]