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Author Topic: Further treatment of this coin  (Read 4374 times)

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Offline Bacchus

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Further treatment of this coin
« on: January 26, 2008, 02:01:06 am »
Normally I don't bother with coins that need treatment of some type (as I know nothing about it) but I couldn't pass up the opportunity to acquire this one - with an unusual die pairing

my question is - is it worth while proceding with some treatment (sodium sesquicarbonate soak?) in the knowledge that this is an unknown varient - or leave it as it is - and just see what happens.  All I've done so far is give it a good scrubbing with a cut down toothbrush

There are before and after pics - (the after one is a poor one as my camera is playing up) - ("bad workman / blames tools" springs to mind :))

 many thanks

Malcolm

Offline slokind

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2008, 03:23:04 am »
I've had one like that (condition, I mean), and I think you've done all you can do.  The head of Diadumenian proves to be a nice one and it will permit you to identify the die with certainty, I think.  Pat

Offline Bacchus

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2008, 03:29:39 am »
Hi Pat,

Yes the obverse die was an easy spot.  I was more concerned with introducing a BD coin amongst the others but I understand the chances of it spreading are not that great - providing the conditions are relatively dry (I do use a lot of silica gel)

Malcolm

Offline Mayadigger

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 12:25:00 am »
Ave!

Ave!

I've had one like that (condition, I mean), and I think you've done all you can do. The head of Diadumenian proves to be a nice one and it will permit you to identify the die with certainty, I think. Pat

Hi Pat,

Sorry, kiddo, but to eyes, I believe that this coin could easily improved.  ::)

Kevin

In retrospect, I believe that my above response may have sounded a bit chuff; my apologies to all, especially to Patricia.

Below is what I saw from the pix...and how I would restore Malcolm's coin. In this case it involves lots of smoothing, intricate detail cleaning and, of course, repatination. If the former gives you the shudders, GO BACK now.  :evil:

Portraits/Rx Figure-

Both portraits on the Obv (already lacking their original patina) can be smoothed with DD rubber Dremel tools, as well as the Rx figure. Rather than remove the details, this will improve them. Yes, I know that sounds odd, but I know of which I speak.  ;)



Legends-

Already excellent, they can still be improved with first, a hand-held DDDP #1, and then with a Dremel DD sharp point P80 tool for final clean up.



Open Surfaces-

Again, they need to addressed with DD rubber Dremel tools (Yeah, yeah...I know that this is beginning to sound like some sort of cheap selling ploy, but it's not, trust me.  :angel:)

Without going into insufferable detail, the above mentioned tools will do the job.



After all of the above, and with liberal use of a SBBB, the issue in question will be pretty much stripped of all original patina...and in need of a new one.  :'(

In this case, I'd begin with JAX Brown patina solution then, after letting the coin rest for a few days, apply JAX Green patina solution to return it to it's original appearnce. Another 3-4 day's rest in bright sunshine to allow the new patina to set, then Ren Wax and buff.

The final look of the coin should have an "old cabinate" appreance, with deep brown highlites and green fill in the legends and open surfaces.

Very best regards to all,

Kevin


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Offline Bacchus

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 02:55:09 am »
I am going submit this coin to Kevin's tender mercys.

It is a rough one and probably does need all the treatments cited above.  If I can persuade Kevin to take a pic at different stages throughout the treatment perhaps we can all learn from it - and see what someone who knows what they are doing can actually do.

All in all, I'm quite looking forward seeing how this goes.

Attached is a good pic of what the obverse should look like.  There should also be a big E somewhere in the reverse field - I think it is just to the right of the arm holding the cornucopia - but I can't seem to locate any other reference to this reverse die - it seems to be unknown (No pressure!)  ;D

Malcolm

Offline casata137ec

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 08:28:25 am »
Quote from: Bacchus on January 31, 2008, 02:55:09 am
I am going submit this coin to Kevin's tender mercys.



You will be most pleased, I just recieved the coin I sent him to be cleaned and it is truly beautiful.

Chris
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Offline Mayadigger

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2008, 04:22:54 pm »
Ave!

Quote from: Bacchus on January 31, 2008, 02:55:09 am
I am going submit this coin to Kevin's tender mercys.

It is a rough one and probably does need all the treatments cited above.  If I can persuade Kevin to take a pic at different stages throughout the treatment perhaps we can all learn from it - and see what someone who knows what they are doing can actually do.

All in all, I'm quite looking forward seeing how this goes.

Attached is a good pic of what the obverse should look like.  There should also be a big E somewhere in the reverse field - I think it is just to the right of the arm holding the cornucopia - but I can't seem to locate any other reference to this reverse die - it seems to be unknown (No pressure!) ;D

Malcolm

Malc,

I'll be sure to take "process in action" pix.  ;D

Kevin
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Offline Mayadigger

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 07:09:59 pm »
Ave!

Malcolm,

As mentioned last night on Forum Chat, your coin is finished.

Here's the coin as received:



The next pix is after just a bit of SBBBing, just for me to get a better idea of the coin's condition under the green encrustations and the surface metal. It get's a bit ugly beginng here, so if you're adverse to restoration techniques - close your eyes.  ;)



Here's what I saw concerning the coin's condition at this point. The legends on both sides were still rather sharp and would need little work, but the raised portraits and Rx figure had lots of problems; IE too sharp. As seen in the before pix, the patina was not fine enough to be saved nor it was neither pretty; it was obscuring the details, as well. So what to do?

I decided to remove all the green encrustations at one time with a four minute zap in electrolysis. After the bath, I used a Dremel SBBB URW (under running water) to clean off both surfaces. The result is seen below. 



As seen, the coin now had lots more details showing, but also lots of pitting, sharp high points, etc. that needed smoothing down. I began with a Dremel rubber 240 grit bullet tool, URW as always, just to smooth off the higher bits then SBBBed if off URW.

Next, I turned to a number of special 50 micron DD tools (the same grit found on my DDDP's) to do some serious smoothing in the open fields, portraits, RX details, etc. These tools are used dry, rather than URW, and in circular motions when ever space allows. Have a dry tooth brush handy to dust off the powder that occurs during this process. Below, is the coin after all the smoothing.



Two thoughts here: sadly, the Obv punt hole upon casting occured right in the middle of the older emperor's chin. Not much I could do about that. The 2nd is that the odd-looking "flashing" seen on the Rx upper left quadrant is from the strike, rather from any tool use.

After all of the above, I placed the coin 1st in JAX Brown, then in Jax Green. Let it rest, then Ren Waxed, buffed and below is the final product. I'm sorry to say that the pix do not give justice to the coin. I photoed it in a number of ways, but it just fails to look like it seen in hand.



Malcolm, not to worry; you'll be delighted with this coin!

Best,

Kevin
 

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Offline Bacchus

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 11:20:56 pm »
Hi Kevin,
That's obviously a vast improvement from the green "blob" I had before - the lettering is clearer too - even though you did not mechanicially touch that part

Thanks also for showing me the process - not one for the faint hearted - and certainly not one I could have attempted on a coin I wanted to keep.  Of all the steps - I think it is the smoothing that was the most productive - and the treatment it needed most, that step really helped the coin, and I see my big "E" too  ;).

Well done indeed!

best regards
Malcolm

Offline Raymond

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2008, 10:14:19 pm »
absolutely fascinating and impressive.
Raymond
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Offline Bacchus

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2008, 01:18:20 am »
I'll have a go at photographing it when it arrives to see if I can improve on that - I wouldn't hold my breath though - my photography is pretty hit an miss (or is that miss and miss)  8).

Malcolm

Offline Bacchus

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2008, 03:47:33 pm »
My coin arrived back today and it really does look 10 times better than it did.  All kudos to Kevin for his ability

My attempt at photographing it is below.

Malcolm


Offline Wolfpack

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Re: Further treatment of this coin
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2008, 12:53:04 pm »
Regarding Kevin's final picture, I've found that my scanner can see through small areas in artificial patinas.   This results in the coin looking much better to the naked eye than what comes from a scan.  I bet the same is true for a regular camera under some lighting conditions.

I assume that the solution (bad pun) is to have another round of using the darkeners?

 

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