Romulus and Remus' Cave discovered

[leetoone]

In case no-one else has posted this

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7104330.stm

Best wishes

Lee

[Gilgamesh]

An Italian site on same.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/imperial_fora_of_rome/sets/72157603251450933/detail/

[Jochen]

Hi Lee!

Please take a look at the article about 'Faustulus and the twins' https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=25089.225

If this cave is really the ancient lupercal then it is that one described by Augustus in his res gestae!

Best regards

[Steve Minnoch]

I find it hard to believe that Augustus would build his palace over such a site.

Steve

[GMoneti]

I find it hard to believe that Augustus would build his palace over such a site.

Steve

It's also hard to believe that he built his palace over it by chance.  Yes, it's the Palatine (i.e. top real estate area), but I doubt the existence and location of such an important structure (if indeed it's what they believe it is) can be forgotten until the time of Augustus.  I guess the question is why was it buried on the first place?  Perhaps it was done by Augustus as a symbol of moving on to a new era - his own.  I don't know if that would've caused an all-positive PR effect though.

[basemetal]

Personal opinion:
To me it just shouts that he built over the "traditional" location, both as stated above, because of the ah.."property values" and the propaganda value. Was the site not totally buried by the time of Augustus?  Roughly 700 years later.  We may mistakenly assume that the romans oral and written descriptions of exact location were better than our own.  In other words, nothing there then pretaining to the twins, but
"tradition had it" that the site was the location. A new beginning for rome, and so "here I shall build".
Of course he may have thought he was building "near" the location and sort of lucked up.
Bruce
Basemetal

[LordBest]

My understanding is that the site is a cave in the original Palatine hill, Augustus palace was built above the cave, it did not harm the cave nor was it an accident. The BBC link has a corss section of the hill showing the location of the cave in relation to the Palace ruins.
                                                                     LordBest.

[David Atherton]

Interestingly enough, L. Richardson in his 'A New Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome' locates the Lupercal in Regio X: "...and far enough away from the Palatine to have permitted construction of a permanent theater, though perhaps not a large one, between it and the Palatine...and it is certainly to be sought nearer to the Circus Maximus."

Also, "it contained a spring, was believed originally to have been preceded by a grove, which had disappeared except for the Ficus Ruminalis by the time of our sources..."

[Rugser]

Other news from Rome for the one who knows the Italian language.

best regards

http://www.repubblica.it/2007/11/sezioni/spettacoli_e_cultura/romolo-e-remo/romolo-e-remo/romolo-e-remo.html

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/view.php?data=20071121&ediz=20_CITTA&npag=1&file=2_5.xml&type=PHOTO

http://www.ilmessaggero.it/view.php?data=20071121&ediz=20_CITTA&npag=1&file=1_3.xml&type=PHOTO

http://www.repubblica.it/2006/08/gallerie/spettacoliecultura/grotta-romolo-e-remo/1.html

[Jochen]

Hi!

The description of the found cave doesn't match the descriptions of the lupercal we have from ancient writers. The original lupercal was a Pan sanctuary, a small, dark, gloomy cult cave with bacchanal rites. But the published pics of the cave now found under the palace of Augustus show that it is decorated with shells, marble and gilded pebbles, mosaics and rectangels filled with flowers and rhombs.

It looks more like a private room as it was typical for the ancient nobility at the end of the Republic, about 50 BC. If it should be really a public cult cave we would expect a very different decoration. There are no hints for sacral objects or an altar. It looks more like a small dining-room which is known for Nero and Caligula too (von Hesberg, Director of the Deutsches Archäologisches Institut in Rom).

The real lupercal should be found much more to the west (Adriano La Regina, Director of the Roman Office of Excavations).

So it is more an uplifting story for the shaken Italian people! ('Der Spiegel')

Best regards

[Robert_Brenchley]

That's pretty much what I was thinking; it doesn't look much like a cult sanctuary at all.