Woman Finds Possible 2,000 yr Old Coin In Grocery Change

[stickman]

I came upon this on digg.com.

I just wish it had better pictures. 
Looks like it should be easily identifiable.

http://www.wltx.com/sports/story.aspx?storyid=41584

[basemetal]

Actually, not really that far-fetched if you think about it.   I've considered doing the same thing myself to see if the clerk said:
"Hey, whaddaya try'in to pull here?  Gimme a real dime".

[AncientCoins]

It almost looks like  a provincial coin of Commodus that I have, with a bunch of grapes reverse.  Mine is very worn, as it was a gift, but here is a picture:

Andrew

[basemetal]

And I'm betting that if she eventually lists it on an auction site, making sure that she identifies herself as "the woman that found a roman coin in her Bi-Lo change, she will be offerd a lot for it.

[m21 bulldog]

Hi. I am new to this forum. I do not believe the picture that ancientcoins posted was the same coin as the lady in the news story. I have attached a modified picture but I just could not get it to clear up. The coin according to the news report is Hebrew c 130 AD. The reverse was not pictured but it has a palm type tree enclosed in circle of beads and has some unknown letters and numbers. I am curious as to the origin of this coin because I too received my coin in a roll of pennies about 8-10 years ago. So this lady was not the first and she does not have the only known specimen. Unfortunately, I have never been able to locate what type of coin it is so any help would be appreciated.

[m21 bulldog]

For some reason the modified picture will not save. Sorry. Go back to the story and right click on the picture. Save it and enlarge. Better details will be seen.

[DruMAX]

closer look:

[m21 bulldog]

Yeah, Thanks Drumax

[m21 bulldog]

I'll try to describe the picture above. It appears the fruit is grapes or figs with two leaves at the top. Below the fruit are letters. From left to right:  then right below the point of the fruit appears a number one,  then a s that was shaped like a swastika, backward c,

On the back is a palm tree type figure enclosed in circle beads. On the left side of the tree are four characters that are not legible and to the right of the tree was 17 I believe

[vozmozhno]

What are the chances that it is just a repro?

Voz

[m21 bulldog]

A repro is a possibility. I've wondered that. It seems so new looking for a coin that has been around for hundreds of years. So many copper type coins on this forum show corrosion, dirt etc. The edge of the coin has an uneven ridge suggesting a cast coin or two pieces pressed together. It also appears a cast tab on the edge of the coin suggesting it was clipped from a mold. However the coin is not perfectly in a circle with uneven edges. On the surface of the coin under magnification, I see pitting from corrosion(probable) or cast bubbles(unlikely). It is has an old copper appearance with very small amounts of blue green residue/oxidation in the small relief of certain areas of the coin suggesting a type of copper material. The thickness is approximately 2-3mm. Ancient experts at various coin shows over the years are baffled. They were clueless to origins. Some thought repro but the pitting kind of leans them towards official coin.

[Howard Cole]

This is a fake.  It is Hendin F738.1.
O: Seven-branched palm tree (3 branches on each side and one in the middle) with two bunches of dates; Hebrew across field below (Jerusalem).
R: Bunch of grapes with branch and small leaf (really not seen on Hendin's example); Hebrew around (For the Freedom of Jerusalem.

His example is 19.9 mm and 5.20 g.  It has a 6 o'clock die axis. 

This is a machine struck fantasy.  It has modern Hebrew (Aramaic) letters on it, instead of ancient Hebrew.

Here is a scan of Hendin F738.1.

[peterpil19]

Perhaps it is possible that a reproduction was used for the purpose of filming the news segment from which the picture above was taken?

If not,  I feel bad for i) the reporter; ii) the woman; iii) the coin dealer friend (collector of over 40 years).

Peter

[Howard Cole]

Perhaps it is possible that a reproduction was used for the purpose of filming the news segment from which the picture above was taken?

If not,  I feel bad for i) the reporter; ii) the woman; iii) the coin dealer friend (collector of over 40 years).

Peter

I believe that that was the coin that was found.  I also believe the coin dealer deals mainly in US coins and knows very little about ancient coins.  Unless you happen to collect Biblical coins, it is easy to understand why the dealer could not recognize the fantasy coin.  I happen to have the correct references and have spent a lot of time looking at coins from the Middle East during that time period and earlier.

[m21 bulldog]

Howard, thanks for the information and picture. Your picture is exactly like my coin and probably the same coin that is in the news story. A bummer none the less however a nice conversation piece. I have been looking and asking about it for several years. When I noticed the news story on www.coinflation.com, I saw that the coin in the picture was like mine. That of course started me on the search for my coin. A general search found this website. Do you have any other information like when it was made or why or metal composition?  Thanks again.

[basemetal]

wow...excellent discussion. 
Many modern coin dealers would say one of two things:
"Oh, one of those ancients.  Well it must be worth a lot."
or:
"Oh, one of those ancients.  Most of 'em are fake of course." 
Which in one fell swoop, misrepresents the whole area of ancient coin collecting with a broadside of  generalities.
Still, it sort of makes me want to try to sell my Warrens Flavian Amphitheatre to ecoli agian.

[areich]

I think if you're gonna put ancients back in circulation you might as well take a shiny (expertly cleaned) Late Roman Bronze!

[Howard Cole]

Do you have any other information like when it was made or why or metal composition?  Thanks again.

All Hendin says is that it is bronze toned and machine struck.  He has had 20 collectors inquire about this coin and they always refuse to accept his verdict that it is a fantasy.

That's about all I know about this coin.

[peterpil19]

Perhaps it is possible that a reproduction was used for the purpose of filming the news segment from which the picture above was taken?

If not,  I feel bad for i) the reporter; ii) the woman; iii) the coin dealer friend (collector of over 40 years).

Peter

I believe that that was the coin that was found. I also believe the coin dealer deals mainly in US coins and knows very little about ancient coins. Unless you happen to collect Biblical coins, it is easy to understand why the dealer could not recognize the fantasy coin. I happen to have the correct references and have spent a lot of time looking at coins from the Middle East during that time period and earlier.

Definitely wasn't questioning your expertise in this area, just suggesting an overly optmimistic but admittedly highly unlikely alternative explanation.

Peter

[Howard Cole]

No offense taken.  I was just explaining why I think it is unlikely they used an alternate coin for the report.  Communication by the Internet can easily be misunderstood.  I did not think that you were questioning at all what I wrote.  I was just trying to explain why an expert in coins may have a problem with identifying coins outside their area of expertise.  Of course, I would not call myself an expert in Biblical coins.

[Robert_Brenchley]

That one's easy; square Hebrew script all over an 'ancient' coin??

[Jay G]

If the coin had been found in NYC it is clear that it would not have ended up as a news story as the holder would likely have known it was bogus....WHICH IT IS INDEED!

Howard is correct in his ID, Hendin is correct and no amount of an act of faith will make the item anything more then it is....a FAKE.

That coin has as much to do with Bar Kokhba as a book on the History of Chicago.

[basemetal]

The whole affair was/is based on the "fabulous rarity" of ancient coins.  Fact is, I'm surprised that more 3rd and 4th century coins aren't found in penny jars and the like.  I'm betting they are, but the finders don't call up the New York Times about it.

[peterpil19]

The whole affair was/is based on the "fabulous rarity" of ancient coins. Fact is, I'm surprised that more 3rd and 4th century coins aren't found in penny jars and the like. I'm betting they are, but the finders don't call up the New York Times about it.

If the story was instead based on how available ancient coins are, perhaps it might have introduced more collectors into the hobby?

Peter

[Goodies]

Hi,

This piece could be of (far) more recent date. It's too big for a prutah.. Shekels (19-21mm) are generally made of silver, not of bronze..

Note also the palm tree, which is a pilgrimage symbol. Of this kind, there exist "Shekel" tokens struck in the 17-19th century, associated with pilgrimage to Jerusalem and sunday schools... I found



Also very peculiar find conditions (Kentucky..  )

"(..) would envision is that at some time in the early 20th century, these replicas may have been distributed throughout the Bible Belt by religious supply merchandisers as inexpensive mementos of the Holy Land. They might then have been given out to youths as prizes for perfect attendance in Sunday School, lost here and there, and then recovered by sharp-eyed observers like Mr. Cox decades later"

http://www.econ.ohio-state.edu/jhm/arch/barkokhb.htm

Also note this example at Rosenblum:



 
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