Unlisted VRBS ROMA bust type - "looking upwards"

[Heliodromus]

One's an anomoly, but two's starting to form a pattern...

The first coin is a bust type variation of RIC VII Antioch 91, and the second a variation of RIC VII Nicomedia 195. Both coins measure approx. 17mm, belonging to the 330-335 timeframe.

It's tempting to speculate on a religious reason as to why this bust type was apparently very short lived, although complaints could have come from either or both pagan/Christian sides depending on how they interpreted the target of Roma's pious gaze!

Has anyone seen this unlisted bust type before on an Urbs Roma (or perhaps a Constantinopolis)? It'd be nice to find one with narrower dating than these two.

Ben

[Adrianus]

Nice coins, Ben, and ones I very much envy you
I've come across some variants like the second coin - whether one calls the Nicomedia upward-looking is, I think, debatable, depending on how you align Roma's shoulders. I recall a few coins I've seen with a similar, upwardish-looking gaze, particularly from Alexandria. I also have a Trier example which I will post when I've photographed it. This is wreath/TRP and there are others similar which are also wreath/TR... or branch TR... This places them in the last 2 of Trier's 5 issues for wolf and twins so c333-5.
The Antioch example is splendid, with an almost front-on view of the drapery and I've not seen one quite like this before in terms of the positioning of the head.  Oddly enough the obverse style of this coin reminds me of certain features of Alexandria Urbs Roma portraits. I've often suspected that die-engravers were occasionally moved around between mints in this period from the striking similarities I've occasionally come across between the coins of certain mints (particularly Trier and Lyons where it seems Trier may have supplied one or two of Lyons engravers at the outset of Lyons' reopening in c330/1).
Congratulations!
Adrianus

[Heliodromus]

Thanks Adrianus!

I'll be very interested to see your Trier example (as well as an Alexandria one if you have a picture). I've tried to be as impartial as possible in the orientation of the Nicomedia coin. The upward gaze on that one does seem intended as the vertical neck orientation I've shown it in (which also seems to result in a naturally orientated shoulders/torso) also corresponds to the 0' die alignment.

The 333-335 dating of your Trier coin is a bit unexpected - I was thinking that maybe this was a bust type that was briefly used at the beginning of the series in 330.

Ben

[slokind]

Merely a matter of nicety in definition (though I really like that wolf, too).  It is not the relation of the head to the shoulders, let alone the orientation of the coin in the image,  that makes it upward looking or level gazing; it is the angle at which the underchin meets the neck that is decisive.  Pat L.

[Adrianus]

Hi Ben and Pat et al,
Yes, these unusual bust variants are usually early - for example the 'winged helmet' variants at Trier which occur in Issue I and other ornate variants. I think this variant  is probably also early - a confusion by a die-engraver who may have been thinking back to the Camp gate types with upward-looking Constantine portraits. Having said that, apart from the earliest issue for wolf and twins at Antioch with SMANT mark, there's no way of being sure whether this is early or late since Antioch (as you say) has just the one issue. This one from Nicomedia must also be early - I may have posted it before - placing a familiar Constantine camp gate style face onto poor Roma. I love these early variants.
Regards,
Adrianus

[Adrianus]

Ah ha, Just looking through my records - here's another and hence yet another of these upward-lookers I missed    On ebay a few months back - same dies too! Where did yours come from, may I ask?
Third time lucky??
Regards,
Adrianus.

[Heliodromus]

Adrianus,
I've PM'd you with the source of mine. Interesting to see another from the same dies show up. I'd still be most interested to see your Trier when you get a chance to take a picture.

I'm inclined to think that these were a deliberate bust type rather than a mistake or celator-level choice. It seems unlikly that they were a result of any confusion of celators having recently worked on the similar Constantine bust type since that had been a few years earlier and anyways was only used on the bronze coinage from Constantinople, Heraclea and Cyzicus, and also it would seem a bit odd to accidently confuse a Constantine bust with Roma!

Regards
Ben

[Heliodromus]

Recently aquired another of these - not as extreme a "heavenly gaze" as the first two, but still appears to be this bust type.

Not too shabby chocolate patina either - with a little gold-toned silvering. A solid $7.51 value! 

Ben

[areich]

That's a beautiful coin!

[Heliodromus]

Thanks Areich! 

Ben