VRBS ROMA Wolf and Twins

[leetoone]

This is a Rome mint product that I cannot pin down at the moment. Any comments or advice would be gratefully received.

Lee

[vic9128]

This looks like it belongs after RIC VII Rome 372. There is only a Gloria Exercitus listed, but this coin would fit there nicely.

[leetoone]

This looks like it belongs after RIC VII Rome 372. There is only a Gloria Exercitus listed, but this coin would fit there nicely.

That is my thinking at the moment, Victor. But I would be interested in any other references or examples that people might know about.

Jeremy - I have been through more or less the same thought process as you! But I wanted to post the coin without prejudicing any comments.

Best wishes

Lee

[romeman]

Hi Lee and friends!

Thanks for alerting me. When it comes to the mint of Rome under Constantine, you can always contact me to get the info you need. Victor is quite right, this is part of the R:branchright:P issue. It's a very rare issue, I only have a single specimen of the Constantine I (#372) and two specimens of the VRBS ROMA. Apart from my specimens and the one in RIC, yours is the only other one I know of from this issue (but surely there are more specimens out there). Interestingly your specimen is struck from different obverse and reverse dies than those used for any of my specimens, so at least three sets of dies were used for the VRBS ROMA of this issue. Not an exceptionally restricted issue thus, but nevertheless only a few specimens are known. Weights and flan sizes indicate that perhaps it is slightly earlier than the position in RIC. If you want images I can get you some, but not at the moment.

Take care, and have fun!

---Lars

[leetoone]

Hi Lars

Thanks for the information. I thought it might be unique at first. But then, I thought, if anyone has any similar examples, it would be you. I was right 

My example is 2.8 gms and 16 mm diameter.

I don't need to see images at the moment, it is enough to know that they are not die links. And, of course, I now know where to go if I need images of other examples in the future. 

Best wishes

Lee

[mauseus]

Hi,

It's interesting to note that the dies are different with such a small population of known coins. Does Adrianus (another member with a huge interest in Wolf and Twins) have a comment on this mark?

Regards,

Mauseus

[Adrianus]

Dear all,

I haven't come across this mark before but so many of these later Rome marks are uncommon if not decidedly rare. Very nice indeed.

Regards,

Adrianus

[leetoone]

Another unlisted wolf and twins commemorative. This one was recently sold on eBay UK by the so-called Sygun Museum of Wales. The only listed officina for Antioch in RIC is theta. I would be grateful if this thread could be used to post any other unlisted or very rare wolf and twins commemoratives.

[Salem Alshdaifat]

City of Rome Commemorative, 335 - 337 A.D.

Bronze AE 3, RIC---, gVF, 1.69g, 15.9mm, Antioch mint, 335 - 337 A.D.; obverse VRBS ROMA, helmeted bust of Roma left wearing imperial mantle; reverse Romulus and Remus suckling from   she-wolf, two stars above, SMAND in ex

plz referance and rareity??
thanks in advance folks.
Salem

[Scotvs Capitis]

Closest I see is this:

Mint mark SMAN theta   
Antioch
RIC VII Antioch 113   c1         

[virtvsprobi]

There was an VRBS ROMA, **//SMANΔ in Jacquier 33, which he identified as RIC 91, but J33 seems to be offline, or the database is experiencing some problem, so I can't find out more about the coin.

G/<

[virtvsprobi]

Salem,

RIC doesn't actually list any of these with SMANΔ, but it seems to be a variety of either RIC 91 or RIC 113.
The only way to distinguish between the two, RIC says, is flan size and weight, and I don't know which is which.
I'm not particularly all that motivated to familiarize myself with RIC VII and the commemoratives.

We could use an VRBS guy in here...

G/<

[virtvsprobi]

I often complain about RIC V, but when I hit RIC VII, my eyes start to feel like they are being treated with sandpaper.

Labyrinthine and cryptic, with footnotes worthy of a splinter sub-group of Illuminati, even more esoteric than their
simply obscurantist brethren.

G/<

[virtvsprobi]

Salem,

I wrote to Stephen Knapp, who specializes in these coins and here's our exchange:

G.K. - "VRBS ROMA - **//SMAND 1.69g, 15.9mm

Basically, I can't establish whether this is a variety of RIC VII, 91 or RIC VII, 113; neither one of which lists a Delta.
If I'm reading RIC right, it says they can be distinguished only by weight and flan size, and I can't tell which is which."

Stephen's reply - "That's one big thing that bugs me about the way Bruun handled RIC VII.
Weight and flan size ranges should have been given.  For the size and weight values you provided, the coin is a variant on RIC 113."

G/<

[leetoone]

At that weight it certainly looks to be the later RIC113 issue. A number of previously unknown eastern issues have appeared on the market in recent years. It would be helpful if Adrianus could comment. He has a number of Antioch issues.

Best wishes

Lee

[Adrianus]

G'day all,
Lee alerted me to this post for which I am grateful.
What a lovely and interesting coin. A difficult coin as well. As several members have pointed out this should be RIC 113 - the diameter and weight are really too light for the heavier module folles of 330-5. However, the fact remains that the reduced weight issue is hitherto unknown in any workshop other than theta  The full-weight issue is struck at all workshops (although many are quite rare). What seems to happen is that there is a steady trickle of wolf and twins from the non-theta workshops which ceases completely at the start of the reduced weight series
Stylistically, this coin appears more like the full weight coins, although the heavy-shouldered wolf does have some affinities with the reduced-weight coins.
My conclusions then, are that this coin is a reduced weight issue but struck at the very start of the reduced weight period, before the small amount of striking at the non-theta workshops had totally ceased. Thus it should presumably be dated to around 335 at the changeover in module.

Regards,

Adrianus

[Salem Alshdaifat]

sorry
the weight is 2.0 gms. and demiter is 17.5mm.

[Adrianus]

Thanks Salem,
The increased weight and larger diameter mean that this must, after all, be an earlier full-weight issue of 330-5 and thus a known type. Although not listed by RIC in the 4th workshop I have noted the occasional example - I do not personally have an example of delta but I do have a very poor epsilon 

Regards,

Adrianus

[Adrianus]

Hi all,

Another type that appears to be unlisted, this time from the later VRBS ROMA BEATA issue. The mintmark appears to be R[trefoil]Q. As such this is an unrecorded mark. The only other possibility is the mark given by RIC VII, 406 and RIC VIII, 17 as  R :leaf:Q or R :leaf2:Q - but the exergual symbol on this coin does not seem to approximate to a leaf.

Regards,

Adrianus

[black-prophet]

Thought I'd throw this coin into the Antioch fray.Not as presentable as i'd like yet but otherwise a well struck coin with fresh dies.

[Adrianus]

Well done,

Another rare coin from the series,

Regards,

Adrianus