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Author Topic: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?  (Read 3004 times)

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« on: December 10, 2021, 05:54:30 pm »
Attention! See also the thread
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=123332

******************

This type is unlisted in RIC and could be quite important because it suggests that BONO GENIO PII IMPERATORIS legend was introduced in Alexandria before Galerius' death (Maximinus is still Caesar). So nice find.

However, I just received an opinion that it may be a modern forgery. In fact, the style is not great and now the more I look at these three specimens (from the same dies), the less I like them.

Waiting for your thoughts.





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Offline djmacdo

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2021, 05:57:10 pm »
i think you are right--I just do not like the style.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2021, 06:15:47 pm »
I think likely fake, but I am not at all certain.
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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2021, 06:26:04 pm »
Different picture of the third specimen. It shows clearly how ugly is that coin.
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Offline Din X

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2021, 06:34:47 pm »
I think, that I have found a reverse die match with obverse die of Maximinus II.
The A of ALE on reverse seems to be damaged/incomplete on all.
Not sure if transfer die fakes or modern die fakes.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2021, 07:07:51 pm »
I think, that I have found a reverse die match with obverse die of Maximinus II.

It could be a prototype. All three coins in question have less details, are less sharp etc.
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Offline SC

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2021, 08:33:17 am »
Genio looks a bit odd, as does his patera, but he is found in dozens of styles on this type of coin.

It is the obverse bust that really looks worrying to me in terms of style.  I just don't find that the hair and wreath and some other bits match the various genuine examples.

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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2021, 09:12:08 am »
The obverse seems to be modern - bust style is wrong (hair, beard), and lettering seems off too.

Anyways, Daia was already augustus in the preceding */K-P issue, RIC 121c (attached), which also includes Galerius. The */K-P then u/K-P issue order has to be correct since Galerius is already dead by the second issue, which contains the Aeternae Memoriae Gal Maximiani type (RIC 133).

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2021, 01:14:26 pm »
So I can assume that there is a consensus that this type is a modern forgery, right?
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Online Victor C

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2021, 01:41:30 pm »
a different picture of one of the above

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2021, 03:30:06 pm »
Well, the riddle is not solved yet.

Is the coin posted by DIN (RIC VI ALEXANDRIA 135b; CNG eAuction 352, lot 522, 9.77 g, 25 mm) the genuine half-prototype for this forgery (I mean for reverse)? Or maybe also its authenticity is dubious? This specimen is very heavy. OCRE gives for this type average weight 6.48 g.

TOP PHOTO

The first fake (this green-yellow one) is from Münzkabinett der Universität Göttingen. And now I found in the same collection coin from the same dies as CNG piece (with characteristic "L" in "VAL" in obv. legend).

BOTTOM PHOTO

The obvious question is: why forger used only reverse and joined it with rather ugly obverse?

Any thoughts?

Lech Stępniewski
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2021, 05:13:41 pm »
Given the scarcity of die matches in general, the alarm bells certainly go off seeing that double die match, with the rev die link to an obviously fake coin.

The patina on the CNG coin rather reminds me of these Diocletian fakes. Also the same sloppy pairing of dies with a variety of others - some plausible, some not.



Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2021, 05:36:08 pm »
The patina on the CNG coin rather reminds me of these Diocletian fakes.

Good point! That's why I started to search for another member of this family.
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Offline glebe

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2021, 07:20:30 pm »
Am I the only person who can't see Lech's pics (in both Chrome and Edge)?
I see everybody else's OK.

Ross G.

[ADMIN: I MODIFIED HIS POST TO MAKE THE PHOTOS ATTACHMENTS]

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2021, 07:35:51 pm »
Am I the only person who can't see Lech's pics (in both Chrome and Edge)?

It is not impossible because sometimes (not in this thread) after hour I don't see my own pictures which were nice on preview and few quarters later.

So once more the same pictures as attachments.

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Offline glebe

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2021, 08:56:38 pm »
These I see OK.

Ross G.

Offline Din X

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2021, 03:50:09 pm »
Currently for sale in auction of US auction house together with 2 fake legionary denarii

Offline Din X

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2021, 03:54:02 pm »
And it seems like one has been sold at ebay in the past

Offline SC

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2021, 04:56:23 pm »
Wow!  Now they're not even trying.......

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Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2021, 05:18:41 pm »
And it seems like one has been sold at ebay in the past

Amazing! So Jovian wasn't the most fantastic combination. Apparently Diocletian has many friends... How this Diogeta was described?
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Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2021, 05:40:33 pm »
Currently for sale in auction of US auction house together with 2 fake legionary denarii

Good find, and good file name.

Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2021, 02:09:29 pm »
Do we have fake coin reports of all the fakes?
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Offline Merinda

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2021, 01:28:48 am »
Here's another example of the Diocletian /Carthage fake currently for sale, noting "Small, light green adhesions. Small old file mark on edge", which implies cast but the flan is a different shape to the one posted above in reply #11?

I will make a fake report once I have notified the seller


Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2021, 08:36:19 am »
Could you send me the details of auction on PM. I would like to add this example here:

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/notinric/6ant-59b_fake.html

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Offline Merinda

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Re: Maximinus from Alexandria. Fake? Modern?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2022, 02:36:10 am »
And it seems like one has been sold at ebay in the past

Amazing! So Jovian wasn't the most fantastic combination. Apparently Diocletian has many friends... How this Diogeta was described?

Here's a contender for an even more fantastic combination I think?! - the reverse die matches that of the Diocletian coin posted in reply #9 in the associated thread referenced at the top of this thread (I didn't want to include it there as it I most definitely not deceptive, but we can add Maximianus Herculeus (I think) to this intriguing die chain  :)

Interestingly, this coin has been in my collection since at least 1990 ...

Allan


 

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