Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: Pandosia silver?  (Read 734 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Pandosia silver?
« on: August 06, 2021, 11:02:44 am »
This coin was shown privately to me.
The ethnic  :Greek_Pi: :Greek_Alpha: :Greek_Nu: :Greek_Delta: :Greek_Omega:  :GreeK_Sigma: :Greek_Iota: :Greek_epsilon: :Greek_Omega: :Greek_Nu: points to Pandosia.

Weight 18.30 gr would mean 7 drachms (with 7.8 gr tridrachm, HGC1 1611).

 Pekka K

Offline Altamura

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 2934
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2021, 04:26:58 am »
Very interesting, I never had heard of Pandosia before and did a bit of research, but the outcome is quite mysterious  :-\.

In none of the usual online collections there is a coin like this. Especially none with such a head on the obverse. And never the legend reads ΠΑΝΔΟΣΙEΩΝ, it is usually ΠΑΝΔΟΣΙΝ or even shorter.

None of these coins has a weight where the 18.3 g would make sense.

But:

In Alfred W. Hands, "Coins of Magna Graecia. The coinage of the Greek colonies of southern Italy", London 1909, there is beginning on page 187 a description of the coinage of Pandosia. On page 193 there is a picture of a coin with an obverse like on the coin presented here, probably representing the river god Kratis. But unfortunately the text seems not to mention this coin  :(:
https://archive.org/details/coinsofmagnagrae00hand/page/192/mode/2up

In Prospero Parisio, "Rariora Magnae Graeciae numismata", Nuremberg 1683, you find on plate VI as number 7 the picture of a coin type quite exactly corresponding to the coin presented here. The head on the obverse, the tripod and the legend are the same:
https://archive.org/details/bub_gb_PdFflkUOMA0C/page/n75/mode/2up
But I didn't find in the text (perhaps because of lack of Latin skills  :-\) any reference to these tables.

Is the coin presented here a reappearance of the coin pictured in the book of Parisio? Or is it a modern remake of this obscure coin? Because of the strange weight I tend to the latter, but the coincidence with the Parisio coin is very astonishing.

So it seems to be quite a puzzle  ???.

Regards

Altamura

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2021, 05:12:49 am »

Thank you for very informative reply. No wonder I didn't find anything.

Pekka K

Offline Ron C2

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Qvod perierat adhvc exstat nvmmorvm
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2021, 12:16:43 pm »
Whatever the verdict here, I really do like the obverse portrait.  It's well executed for a slightly off-facing portrait and was done by a skilled hand.
My Ancient Coin Gallery: Click here

R. Cormier, Ottawa

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2021, 12:58:55 pm »
Right you are, but the reverse looks made by not so skilled hand.

Pekka K

ps. compare to Prospero picture:

Offline Din X

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1262
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2021, 03:49:18 am »
It seems to be a very old counterfeit (and so valuable), many Cparara and Becker forgeries have wrong weight and the style could fit to Caprara.
I would love to have it in my fake collection and would pay good money (above market value) for it (in the hope it is an unpublished Caprara), if the owner wants to sell he can contact me here.

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2021, 11:31:25 am »

Thank you for additional information.

I let you know, if the owner agrees to sell.

Pekka K

Offline Pekka K

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 7336
  • ...one coin at a time...
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2021, 10:12:10 am »

Maybe 12 bis on page 64 of "Becker the Counterfeiter" has something
pointing to  this item.

Pekka K

Offline Din X

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 1262
Re: Pandosia silver?
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2021, 12:33:07 pm »
All known Becker fakes of Greek coins except Hill number 92 are already in fake reports (of most fakes are several specimens there and more could be uploaded if there would be a demand) and almost all of the Becker dies are now at Münzkabinett in Berlin.
So we know from the still existing Becker dies in Berlin and the fact that  tin strikes of Becker dies were later officially sold as Becker fakes almost all or all of his fakes.
The pictures of dies were not made by me.


 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity