Phocas Solidus Constantinople vs. Thessalonica

[Joe Sermarini]

4.362g, 20.5mm
My consignor sent this identified as Thessalonica mint.  Looking at Coin Archives it is not immediately clear to me how to differentiate between specimens with these types struck at Thessalonica and Constantinople.  I saw examples very similar to this coin attributed to both mints.  Anyone know how to tell the difference?

[Obryzum]

Speaking from memory, and without my references handy except for Sear, I recall that there is no consensus at this point that any solidi were ever struck in Thessalonica.  I think this may be the reason for your confusion.  Many would say that all of the coins including this one are Constantinople Mint.

Sear lists two types for Thessalonica, but they have different legends that the coin here.  What's more, the sources Sear cites assign the coins to Ravenna or Sicily.   

[Gert]

On top of what Obryzum says, the Constantinopolis examples of this type in DOC, MIB and the Bibliothèque Nationale all match the style of your coin, so I'd see no reason to put it somewhere else, Ravenna, Thessalonica or elsewhere.

There is something else I'd like to draw attention to: the graffiti on the rev. It seems to read CMΘ, which may very possibly be the number 249. I have noted a couple of numbered solidi with three-'digit' numbers applied to them (there's a POΔ in my collection).
Regards
Gert

[Joe Sermarini]

Thanks Obryzum and Gert. 

[Joe Sermarini]

I am still pondering this coin. Some similar coins CNG(6) and Heritage(1) on Coin Archives are attributed to Thessalonica. They list one reference Berk Gold 109. One characteristic that seems different from usual, are the eyes. The Berk coin and the seven "Thessalonica" coins of this type on Coin Archives have upper and lower eyelids. The vast majority of coins of this type on Coin Archives, attributed to Constantinople, have simple pellet or dash eyes. Another oddity on this coin is that the cross is not attached to the crown. That appears to be only found on coins with these eyes but not on all of them. The difference in price between Thessalonica and Constantinople is about $1000, and my consignor wants $1500. So I either have to attribute it to Thessalonica or return it. The coin on top below is the coin in question (bigger pic above). Any more opinions?  


Detailed Eyes - Thessalonica?


Button Eyes - Constantinople


Button Eyes - Constantinople


Dash Eyes - Constantinople

Below are some "Thessalonica" examples from Coin Archives...

[joma-tk]

On top of what Obryzum says, the Constantinopolis examples of this type in DOC, MIB and the Bibliothèque Nationale all match the style of your coin, so I'd see no reason to put it somewhere else, Ravenna, Thessalonica or elsewhere.

There is something else I'd like to draw attention to: the graffiti on the rev. It seems to read CMΘ, which may very possibly be the number 249. I have noted a couple of numbered solidi with three-'digit' numbers applied to them (there's a POΔ in my collection).
Regards
Gert

I dont think the graffiti reads CMΘ. Why should one revert the C.
Maybe though one can read it as ΘEC.
Just a remark without implying that this connects the coin with ΘEC (Thessalonica) mint.

tk

[Joe Sermarini]

Interesting!

The more I look at these coins, the more likely it seems to me they were issued from different mints. Other examples, clearly different from both of the styles here, are attributed to Carthage. I do believe Thessalonika is more likely than Constantinople.

[Obryzum]

There is a world of difference between the top coin and many of the uninspired Constantinople issues of Focas.  I would not be surprised at all if they were issued by different mints.  The tricky thing is that for some of these issues, there is a lot of variation, and many coins seems to fall somewhere in between.  The case for two mints would be stronger if there was a clear break somewhere along that spectrum.   

[vercingetorix]

It is a quinquennial issue of Thessalonica (606/7). The hand engraving reads   C. Perhaps as a coincidence   C appears on Thessalonican half-folles of Justin II and stands for Theotokos (Mother of God).
The criteria for distinguishing between Constantinopolitan and Thessalonican issues are clarified in MIBEC, p. 62-63.