FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board
Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Roman Provincial Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: Thilo on May 06, 2013, 08:26:43 am
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Hi,
lately I received the attached coin. It is 29.7 mm and 17.68 g.
Obv.: Laureate, draped (and cuirassed?) bust of Caracalla (?) r., as seen from front.
RV: Tyche with mural crown in tetrastyle temple with conches in pediment seated right on rock (?), river god in front of her. Tyche seems to "baptize" the river god. Behind Tyche on the r. Nike (?) crowns (?) Tyche.
I really do like the obverse draperies as well as the reverse with its "baroque"-style temple.
However, I continue to have trouble with attributing it to a city. The obverse clearly resembles Spijkerman, Pella, nos. 12-13. This would also mean the obverse shows Caracalla. Actually, Spijkerman, Pella, no. 13, may show the same coin as mine, although in worse condition.
The reverse, however, appears at Spijkerman, Supplementum I, no. 76a, and is attributed to Gadara and Elagabalus. Spijkerman's (or Piccirillo's who edited the book) attribution seems to be based on Rosenberger, EP, 48, nos. 82 - 83. Since I do not have access to Rosenberger, EP, I cannot check whether there were any reasons for an attribution to Gadara.
However, the obverse pictured for Spijkerman, Supplementum I, no. 76a, looks like a die match for Spijkerman, Pella, 14. Thus, have Rosenberger and Spijkerman both got it wrong and Rosenberger, EP, 82-83 aka Supplementum I, no. 76a as well as my coin should be attributed to Pella? Both obverse dies that seem to exist for this reverse type seem to indicate.
Thanks for your help
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Thilo
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In the Sofaer collection just published, it appears to be a match for Elagabalus from Gadara (Sofaer 95). The cross reference is for Rosenberger 83.
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Thanks for the info. Does Sofaer give a reason why the coin is attributed to Gadara? Are any new reverse legend parts readable on the Sofaer piece (oh, obverse legend would be interesting, too)? The reverse legend identified in Spijkerman, Add, 76a, which seems to be based on Rosenberger 82, 83, does not give a clear indication for Gadara. But the two obverse dies for this reverse (the one shown at Spijkerman, Add., 76a, and mine) are die matches to coins that clearly can be identified as Pella coins (Spijkerman, Pella 12, 14) by their reverse legends. Thus, we either have die sharing for these obverse types between Pella and Gadara or we have a misattribution.
Thanks and regards
Thilo
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I will try and scan the listing and plate tonight. I don't think there is commentary on this particular coin, but i will take a look. Sorry for the short replies, i dont usually get more than a minute to look at the boards.
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It looks like on the Sofaer coin the ethnic is readable. Assuming it matches yours, attribution seems pretty tight. FYI, the Sofaer collection is a wonderful resource for holyland coins- highly recommended!
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Thank you so much for posting this. Indeed, on the Sofaer coin the ethnic is very clear. And it is the same reverse type as mine - not the same die, though. The middle intercolumnium is wider on mine as well as the distance between Tyche's back and Nike's column and the distance between Tyche and the river god. The obverse die of my coin clearly matches a Pella obverse die. However, because of the reverse type I will - for the time being - see my coin as Gadarean with shared obverse dies between Pella and Gadara.
Maybe a clear identification will be possible in the future if and when a readable coin with my reverse die appears somewhere.
Thanks for your great support!
Thilo
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Now, more than 9 years later, I finally have the final confirmation in hand that the coin is from Pella. While the obverse die had indicated that it is Pella, anyway, a second piece was sold last year which was identified by the seller as coming from Pella, too - likely because of the obverse die since the reverse did also not clearly show the city name.
Now, here comes a third piece which I just acquired, and as opposed to the other two pieces, the part of the reverse legend naming the city name is readable (the picture does not show the last two letters too clearly but they are readable in hand) - and it is PELLA.
So, the coin is:
AE 28, 18.75 grm.,
Obv. Laureate, draped, cuirassed bust of Caracalla r., [...] SEB
Rv. Tyche seated right on rock, holding phiale; standard behind; river-god below; all within tetrastyle temple facade with arched central bay with scalloped ceiling, KO CY [...] PELLA
So, here we go, the coin is indeed from Pella while there is a similar reverse for Elagabal (instead of Caracalla) in Gadara.
Best regards from a happy
Thilo
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Interesting. Thanks for the update.
I wonder if it is known where exactly these coins were struck, and, perhaps more relevantly, where the dies were carved. Did each city in the Decapolis and surrounding area that issued coins in this period strike their own or were there regional centers of production?
I know such studies have been done for other areas.
Pella was a good bit smaller than Gadara and was not too far away.
SC
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Pella indeed, this type appears in Spijkerman as Caracalla. I recently acquired a double die matching coin to the one in Sofaer collection (illustrated above) and it also clearly reads Pella. I also inspected Sofaer's coin in the Israel Museum in Jerusalem, and it is obvious his coin is tooled. There are additional coins in his collection that are tooled as well, that's what happens when collectors pay premium for best looking coins - details are just added that ruin actual historical value.
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Thank you, Alex. So, Piccirillo/Spijkerman and Rosenberger already had it wrong, too, since they hat attributed it to Gadara, as well. On a closer look, it seems that they also knew only the Sofaer coin. At least., the picture in Spijkerman 76a seems to be the same coin as in Sofaer.
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It took a while, but worth the wait. :)