Classical Numismatics Discussion
  Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Expert Authentication - Accurate Descriptions - Reasonable Prices - Coins From Under $10 To Museum Quality Rarities Welcome Guest. Please login or register. 10% Off Store-Wide Sale Until 2 April!!! Explore Our Website And Find Joy In The History, Numismatics, Art, Mythology, And Geography Of Coins!!! Support Our Efforts To Serve The Classical Numismatics Community - Shop At Forum Ancient Coins

New & Reduced


Author Topic: In-shot White Backgrounds  (Read 3027 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Optimo Principi

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 604
In-shot White Backgrounds
« on: February 21, 2011, 03:23:38 pm »
Can people share their techniques of achieving natural in-photograph white backgrounds, without the need of photoshop? I have read all over the board and seen varied suggestions such as kitchen tiles, ceramic dishes, expensive up-lighters, even just white card, but there seems to be no consensus on what is best.

rsuarez

  • Guest
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2011, 02:40:04 am »
Have you tried plain white paper?

If you're expecting perfectly white backgrounds from-the-shot you're bound to be disappointed. The reason is that your camera's focus area, if used correctly, will be measuring the light levels within the bounds of the coin to determine the proper exposure. On a dark copper coin this may mean that you do get the background so whitewashed that it appears perfectly white like you intended but on a lighter coin the shutter must remain open for less time - giving, of course, less time for the camera to "develop" the background into a featureless white area!

Knocking out the background in photoshop, or pretty much any other program, is very easy. You just use the tool that selects area by light level (magic wand in PS) and click around until all but the coin is selected then delete it.


TRPOT

  • Guest
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 11:59:20 pm »
Try putting the coin on a piece of dowel or clay to hover it above the surface so that the background is out-of focus. Doing this on a light table is even better... no shadows. I bought a cheap portable light table for $25.

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2011, 01:11:33 pm »
My 'light table' is a crisper tray from a refrigerator we sent to the trash 20 years ago.  Across the top of it is a piece of glass on which is glued a short dowel to keep the dust on the glass from being in focus.  I use it for white background coins (but still prefer black which does not need the glass).  Be careful not to have too much light from below in the name of getting a pure white.  Too much easily causes flare and low contrast images.  Don't shoot on full auto but find a manual setting by trial and error and use that.  Full auto will sometimes give different exposures for the two sides of the same coin and make it harder to match them when combining the sides.  I do agree that it is easy to remove the background using magic wand tools but it is best if the background is even and contrasts well with the edges of the coin before you start. 


Offline Rich Beale

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 663
  • Nec Aspera Terrent
    • ROMA NUMISMATICS
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 07:01:11 am »
There is really no way to achieve a perfect white background and a good photograph of the coin at the same time that I know of. Most auction houses use a Danner photo stand to take the picture, and the supplied software to automatically whiten then background.

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 03:09:56 pm »
There is really no way to achieve a perfect white background and a good photograph of the coin at the same time that I know of. Most auction houses use a Danner photo stand to take the picture, and the supplied software to automatically whiten then background.

From how I've seen the Danner system working it seems to take two shots, one lit and one unlit, with the unlit photo providing a shape-template to identify what parts of the overall shot don't include a coin; that template then electronically filled in perfect white and then superimposed on the properly lit coin photo, to show a coin against a white background; the images are then stitched, and all this is done automatically in seconds so one click of the button gives you the stitched image saved in various sizes and types including tiff, jpeg - magnified and actual size etc - with a sequential numbering.

Whilst this sounds sophisticated, and indeed is, in the end it amounts to cutting-out-the-coin, albeit by a clever electronic means.

Why not cease fighting nature, and take a photo against a background of your choice? Red, grey and blue seem to work well.

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4440
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 03:22:04 pm »
I have given up cutting out the coin. I take my coins against a white background and end up with a grey background.

I could cut out the background in Photoshop with the magic wand but no longer bother.

I am more concerned with obtaining a good image of the coin with decent lighting, colouration and detail.

The only post processing I do is cropping and merging obverse and reverse into a single image.



Martin

Offline Andrew McCabe

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4651
    • My website on Roman Republican Coins and Books, with 2000 coins arranged per Crawford
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 03:36:35 pm »
I have given up cutting out the coin. I take my coins against a white background and end up with a grey background.

I could cut out the background in Photoshop with the magic wand but no longer bother.

I am more concerned with obtaining a good image of the coin with decent lighting, colouration and detail.

The only post processing I do is cropping and merging obverse and reverse into a single image.
Martin

Ditto, except that I photograph against a standard photographers grey background, which makes it even easier to obviate post-processing.

When I moved to a new better (non-compact) camera a few months back I found it saved me immense amounts of time in obviating the need for post-processing, and given my time is worth money, the higher price paid for itself in time saved.

Offline Optimo Principi

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 604
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 06:16:27 pm »
I would use photoshop but I've always had a problem eliminating the background without taking much of the coin with it! Where can I get a standard photographic grey background?

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 08:42:30 pm »
I would use photoshop but I've always had a problem eliminating the background without taking much of the coin with it! Where can I get a standard photographic grey background?

Photo supply stores sell gray cards but the easier way is to use white and put less light on it.  Don't fall in the trap of lighting the coin to make the background look right; make the coin look right.  It is 1000% easier to select the background if the coin is raised high enough above it so the background is completely out of focus.  Gray is a lot harder to make even than either black or white but if you agree with the listmembers who are not bothered by minor uneveness or difference between the two sides, gray can look fine.   There are many different opinions on this list regarding what looks best. 

Offline maridvnvm

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 4440
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2011, 03:10:34 am »
I use my grey card purely for white balance purposes. My coin sits on a sheet of glass, which is about 4 inches above a sheet of white paper. I end up with the grey in my image above. The down side is as Doug has pointed out that due to a slight uneven nature to my lighting the grey isn't completely even across the image and so I end up with the seam which is visible between the two sides of the coin. I can live with this. Others may dislike it. I can select the whole of the grey with a single click of the magic wand and not lose any of the coin because it is relatively uniform but I simply choose not to remove it at the moment. If at some point in the future I want to then I can still change it later but it is the image of the coin that I want to keep.
Martin

Offline Optimo Principi

  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 604
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2011, 04:57:36 am »
This is very useful, thanks guys. I will settle for the grey background and try eliminating the background of the coin with my Photoshop elements - it's the edges I never seem to get right so hopefully this will improve it.

Offline dougsmit

  • Tribunus Plebis Perpetuus
  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2126
    • Ancient Greek & Roman Coins
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2011, 06:20:24 pm »


The code to make the coin backgroundless on Forvm is d2d6df for every other post (the others are white).  I still prefer black but making the coins appear backgroundless has some interest.

Offline Akropolis

  • Procurator Monetae
  • Caesar
  • *****
  • Posts: 2762
    • Akropolis Ancient Coins
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2011, 06:25:04 pm »
Clever, Doug.
PeteB

Offline Aarmale

  • Procurator Caesaris
  • Caesar
  • ****
  • Posts: 1543
  • Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2011, 05:25:49 pm »
Note my avatar.  It is a GIF with an invisible background, so even the grey background does not make the image "awkward".


-Aarmale
Gallery: http://tinyurl.com/aarmale
היינו דאמרי אינשי: טבא חדא פילפלתא חריפתא ממלי צנא קרי

bruno v

  • Guest
Re: In-shot White Backgrounds
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2011, 01:53:14 pm »
If you absolutely want to get a white background, some photographic light table could help

 

All coins are guaranteed for eternity