DIY Athenian Owls....

[Potator II]

Hi,

Here is a link to a short movie about the process of minting coins : http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x860kr_los-rutenes-wwwidentificacionnumism_lifestyle/video/xzvte_falsificacion-de-monedas_business?from=rs

Very interesting, I think, for understanding how it works
Very threatening for what it implies in terms of fake manufacturing....

Regards
Potator

[Gaseous Maximus]

Did you go their website ? That IS scary. They sell replicas of well known Roman and Greek coins, all hand struck, not cast, so no two are the same, for peanuts.It's not that difficult to age and weather these coins to the point that they will fool experts.

Take a look....

http://antiquanova.com/roman.htm

Gaseous

[Lloyd Taylor]

It is a nicely produced video clip that shows that unsurprisingly little has changed in a couple of millennia when it comes to hand striking coins. This is why ancient cities fell over themselves to secure autonomous mint status....literally a licence to strike money and arbitrage the margin between bullion and coin values, and all it took was a small pool of cheap labour! 

Under the circumstances a well developed sense of appropriate style for any issue and a clear coin provenance and are increasingly  pre-requisites for the collector.

Clearly the new mint workers, as were of those of ancient times, are working in jurisdictions lacking strongly developed and enforced occupational health and safety legislation. You’d reckon the business owners could provide the poor sod with some safety gloves and eye protection!

[DruMAX]

Nothing too revealing, the methods being used are to be expected. Low tech minting once you have the dies is simple as I have foud. You will notice the dies are already made and they do not show how they make them. As I have found, making the die is the difficult part, striking coins like the ancients is cheap, easy and low tech.

[Joe Sermarini]

...It's not that difficult to age and weather these coins to the point that they will fool experts...

These coins will not fool experts unless they are smashed beyond recognition and the experts are in a dark room, distracted and in a hurry.   Your statement is false.   I greatly disapprove of "sky is falling" erroneous posts.   That is one of the biggest no-nos on this board.  I make my living selling coins and I don't need people scaring away customers with false statements about fakes fooling experts. 

[hitchuk]

Although it is scary to see that there are reproductions being hand struck, Joe is 100% right, these would probably not even fool a moderately seasoned collector, let alone an expert.

First and foremost, the style of these "owls"are unlike anything close to those of antiquity. 

[Maffeo]

Wow, for only 9 euro I can finally have my very own Brutus EID MAR denarius!!
I don't think even my cat would be fooled by it. 

[Joe Sermarini]

Although it is scary to see that there are reproductions being hand struck...

There have always been hand-struck reproductions.  The earliest ones were counterfeits and imitatives contemporary with the originals. 

[commodus]

Antiquanova has been discussed at some length on this board before. This company is not like Slavey or other fake makers who set out to produce bogus coins meant to deceive. They make no pretense that their coins are anything but reproductions, they mark the coins accordingly, and even intentionally create differences between their reproductions and the real thing to further guarantee that no one will be fooled. I think any comparison of an honest maunfacturer of reproductions such as this firm to those who produce fakes specifically for the purpose of deception is misplaced.

[Gaseous Maximus]

Hey Joe, where you going with that Denarius in your hand ?

I know this is your gig and I am very grateful that you had the globus immensus to build this amazing discussion board.  I am ever more grateful that I found it last week.

I don't think that 'the sky is falling'. I do think that is leaking badly.

If you call Paypal directly at 888 221 1161  and shout AGENT loudly into the phone you will be able to talk to someone who is one of these:

1. Friendly but not very informative.
2. Guarded but eventually helpful.
3. Straight out forthright.

I call back several times until I get # 3.

Ebay has a massive problem with known ancient fake coins. They won't tell you how massive, but by asking questions like "Do you think it's 1 - 5% of all coins sold on Ebay ?" "More". I infer that it's about 20%. Yes 1 in every 5 coins on Ebay is probably a modern fake.

Like the economy I don't think it's going to get better very soon.

I used to think, well inexpensive coins are immune, and I haven't bought anything that's ridiculously rare, so nothing in MY collection is suspect. Wrong.  Labour is so cheap in a lot of countries in Eastern Europe that a pretty looking Follis from Constantiine is a viable target. And right now I'm looking at a very pretty follis with a Genivs reverse. It's very pretty and it looks genuine to me. It cost me $21.75. If it is a forgery it would cost about 30c to make. That's a handsome profit. Unfortunately it's not practical to send it to David Sear.

If I were a complete novice to ancient coins I would , 99% of the time for at least a year, buy only from Joe and other completely reputable dealers who are willing to stand by the authenticity of the coins.

Oh and BTW I've got a few coins I'm going to post for member authentication - or not. Apparently I haven't learned my lesson yet.

Posse subjectior exuro in inferi - May forgers burn in hell

Gaseous

[Reid Goldsborough]

Same message posted on CoinTalk:

There's a lot to be concerned about with regard to ancient coin authenticity, with lots of bad stuff going on. Antiquanova, the maker of these replicas, isn't one of them. They're a totally legitimate and legal maker of replicas (not fakes, not forgeries, not counterfeits -- legal copies), among the best and most highly regarded ancient coin replica makers in the world. They mark their work as copies. Yes, bad guys can gouge out the countermark or make die transfer or cast fakes from the replicas and tool out the countermark, but this is the same as with all replicas. What's more, the style always gives these away for what they are. These aren't deceptive or dangerous -- nothing to get worked up over. 

If you want to get worked up, there are a fair number of scammers on eBay who have set up shop for years selling forgeries as authentic not only of ancient coins but artifacts as well -- thousands of them, with thousands of people having gotten scammed. Which is why if you buy on eBay, and you're relatively new or inexperienced, you really need to buy only from sellers recommended by reliable sources. There are lots of good sellers, and lots of bad ones too.

[Joe Sermarini]

No, the sky is not leaking badly. 

eBay is just one unimportant place to buy coins.  To novice collectors that stumble onto eBay first it seems to be the center of the ancient coin collecting world.  It is the center of the fake and junky uncleaned coin collecting world but really not very important at all. 

There have always been replicas.  There have always been dangerous fakes.  There have always been frauds.  There have always been good honest dealers that make mistakes.  Sadig Gallery had a shop and catalog full of fakes long before there was eBay.  Any student of ancient history should know, there is nothing new. 

No, the sky is not falling or leaking badly.  Everything is just as it has always been, if it was leaking we would all be underwater by now. 

[Robert_Brenchley]

Thee have always been fakes on Ebay, most of them can be spotted easily. there have always been fake sellers, and the worst of them are named and shamed here. If the sky is leaking, it has nothing to do with fakes. Beware, lest an angry deity is about to re-open the sluicegates of Heaven!

[AOTAntiques]

I've know about them for quite some time...

The only thing I think that "could have" been scary, is that for a price they'll make you a die, or make a die for you to have coins made though them, with your design. Then make as many coins as you want/order...though, no matter what, I don't believe they'd make anything too convincing

At least (and I didn't look) that's one of the services they used to offer. I didn't look to see if they still did

I don't believe they do what they do to fool anyone. They've made some very pretty nice coins (fantasy coins) and advertise them as such

I was at their site a few years ago, and at that time some of the custom coins they showed were really quite nice (for fantasy coins)
So much so I thought about having them make me something from a design of mine for some jewelry pieces I was making...
But, the cost was too much for my meager means back then

[Lloyd Taylor]

Custom die preparation and striking is a service offered by Antiquanova: http://antiquanova.com/custom.htm

This poses no problem or risk for the informed collector of genuine ancient coins, unless the dies commissioned by third parties are engraved in true replication of the original style of an authentic coin. As noted elsewhere in the thread, the modern artistic interpretation of Antiquanova is irreconcilable to authentic ancient styles and this is very apparent to any informed collector.

Quote from website:
The die cost is always charged. This makes coinage effective upwards from a series of approx. 100 units of coins or medals, although striking a smaller series is possible. The graphic design (pencil or Indian ink drawing magnified 2–3 fold) is included in the cost of the dies if used for coinage.

The cost of dies depends on:

    * Size (diameter)
    * Relief (height of relief – compare for example Greek Tetradrachm and Medieval Denarius coinage)
    * Complexity of engraving (pictorial details, number and type of letters, etc.)
    * Issue run (large runs require hardened dies)

The dies pass into the ownership of the client and are stored in our workshop. ANTIQUANOVA is not authorized to use the dies for coinage for third parties. On demand, the dies can be sent free of shipping cost to the client, however ANTIQUANOVA accepts no responsibility for their condition or possible damage when used for coinage by the client.   

[Lloyd Taylor]

Ipso facto: https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=51256.msg318583#new