Numism > Reading For the Advanced Ancient Coin Collector
Marcus Antonius Legionary denarii
ickster:
In another display of my ignorance, I'm wondering if there is a reason behind those with named (epithets, as Mr. Clay described it) and those with only the LEG # at the bottom reverse? Is one an earlier version?
E
Andrew McCabe:
--- Quote from: curtislclay on April 04, 2011, 10:32:39 pm ---Specimen counts from large hoards are usually very good indices of relative rarity.
For Antony's legionary denarii, the following quantities were contained in the Delos Hoard of 1905, according to Revue Num. 2003:
...
IIX not in Crawford, none in hoard. Andrew, how do we know of this piece?
...
So the real rarities are PRI, IIII (Andrew, why not in your list?), IIX, and XVIIII.
...
Scarce are the two Cohort pieces and all with epithets, plus XIIII and XVIII. Andrew says some of these are common, but that impression is probably merely created by the fact that they are particularly sought after and sell for a premium, so preferentially make their way into collections and are offered by dealers.
Commonest are apparently II, V, VI, and XV.
--- End quote ---
Curtis,
Very useful hoard list. As I noted I based my list just on RSC prices. Oddly RSC notes IIII as a "cheapie" - unlike XVIIII - so I didn't include it in my list of rarer coins. Happily I have an IIII in my collection.
I indeed had the impression the cohorts and named legions were commoner as they always seem to be for sale albeit at lower condition and at their premium pricing. There's a commercial filter acting that brings them to the top.
Several IIX are known, there was one at public auction about 5 years ago, I myself noted and bid on a different eBay example about 10 years ago (in the very early years of ebay), misdescribed as an IX but plainly not, the German ebay seller rejected my international bid (it was in the era before universally simple bank transfers) and it sold for 110 euros. Unfortunately I didn't grab a photo. I recall a third example cropped up too. Sounds vague, but I'm sure the type exists.
My instinctive sense of the most common ones - II, V, VI, XV - is borne out by the hoard list, but I'd never seen them listed as such. X, XI, XII seem to crop up an awful lot in the market as does XVI. I wonder could an updated assessment be produced by analysing internet sales.
Andrew McCabe:
--- Quote from: Andrew McCabe on April 05, 2011, 05:31:43 am ---
Several IIX are known, there was one at public auction about 5 years ago, I myself noted and bid on a different eBay example about 10 years ago (in the very early years of ebay), misdescribed as an IX but plainly not, the German ebay seller rejected my international bid (it was in the era before universally simple bank transfers) and it sold for 110 euros. Unfortunately I didn't grab a photo. I recall a third example cropped up too. Sounds vague, but I'm sure the type exists.
--- End quote ---
Below is the "public auction" IIX I cited, NAC45, 2008. As it came via HjB to NAC I'm guessing Curtis may have handled it. It says "second known". As noted above I'm aware of a third example but without a record.
Lucas H:
As always thanks for all the excellent information.
--- Quote ---Legio IV Scythica
--- End quote ---
The seller of my coin indicated it was Legio Quarta, Macedonica, and was disbanded by Vespasian because of it's support of Vitellius in the Civil War. Is there a way to tell the difference between coins of Legio IV, Scythica, and Legio IV, Macedonica?
Jay GT4:
It's Scythica. From my own example I have these notes:
In its first years, the whereabouts of IV Scythica are uncertain, although it is probable that it took part in Antony's campaign against the Parthians. The name suggests that it fought against the Scythians. After the battle of Actium and Antony's suicide, Octavian transferred IV Scythica to the Danube province of Moesia. The legion is reported to have taken part in civilian tasks, such as the building and keeping of roads. In his youth, future emperor Vespasian served in this legion.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-42320
We have to be careful because some legions were disbanded or incorporated into Octavian's Legions after Actium.
I have one of the scarcer VIIII Legion's as well, although not in great shape.
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pos=-63947
Plus a few of the named legions including a LEGIO COHORTIS SPECULATORVM
All my Antony's are here:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=1822
Curtis, Andrew those are great lists, I've been looking for something like that. I wonder if it is possible to determine how many legionaries were in each legion by the amount of coins that survive. Not all of Antony's legions would have been at full strength. Then again after Actium many were discharged and settled throughout the provinces so it might be a stretch.
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