Numismatic and History Discussions > Greek Coins

Ptolemy IV Trihemiobol attribution help needed

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Din X:
Your help is very much appreciated!
The coin was in a lot with forgeries but looks authentic in hand.
The weight is 15,25g.
the edge has some file marks (not sharp) and a seam, I assueme this is from planchet preparation, is that correct?
The details are very sharp and I can exclude the possibility of a cast fake and that forgery make such a strange edge that could be misundersood as casting seam doesn´t make sense.
I can not find a match with cornucopiae  and opened wings.

Callimachus:
Try this link:
https://hal.science/hal-02510731/document

The one link on the ptolemybronze.com website that might be of some help, does not work on my computer.
Learn about how Ptolemaic bronzes were manufactured

The file marks on your second picture are at different angles with the casting seam as the dividing line. That seems a bit odd.

Din X:
Thank you.
I assume that the employees at mint did not have time to waste for unnecessary things so there must be a reason for this file marks (they are not sharp and not fresh).
We do not know what tool they have used but it is rather likely if it was a file or something similar that the file marks will be hardly symetrical on both sides, would be difficult and time conusming.

I guess that this could be weight adjustment marks on the edge, if there has been a strict weight control on this mint for this emission.
On some European coins (about 1600-1800) there are sometimes on the surface "Justierspuren" (weight adjustment marks).

Or that this marks were already in the mould, maybe it helpped that the metal is floating better there, or that the planchet they used to create the imprints in to moulds had this marks alreay on the edge (and the planchet used to make this imprints into the moulds could have this marks on the edge weight adjustment reasons.

I assume that the coin was in this replica lot becasue of the strange edge but the coin itself looks 100% authentic in hand and there is no plausible reason why forgers would rework the edge like this, again this file marks are very soft and not fresh so if forgers would apply such marks on the edge they must have found a way to soften them later and with the file marks the seam is even more present and better visible.
Why sould forgers waste their precious time to make the edge look like and makeing the seam more obvious resulting in wrong condemnation of many  collectors and dealers who think seam = modern cast fake.
To make the edge look like this is counterproductive for forgers.
They either do not touch the edge and so there will be the seam, where the 2 moulds met, or they will remove the seam for example with a file (some will later remove the file marks with polishing etc.) or remove it directly through polishing.

Altamura:
In the article by Thomas Faucher linked above by Callimachus there is no mention of systematically filing ptolemaic flans apart from making unvisible the traces of the "runners", how he calls that.

Your coin is the first ptolemaic one where I see this (on other coin series you have that systematically, e.g. on the crocodiles from Nemausus). Or do you have some more examples?
So I think that this is more a sign of the individual fate of that coin (whether genuine or not) and not part of some mint procedure  :-\.

Regards

Altamura

Callimachus:
I am not an expert of these coins.
However, if, as you say, it came in a group of forgeries, then it's kept bad company.
Until you find another positively genuine one with an edge like this, I'd say the coin is suspect.

Below a screenshot from Google references this website.

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