FORVM`s Classical Numismatics Discussion Board

Numismatic and History Discussion Forums => Greek Coins Discussion Forum => Topic started by: cicerokid on August 16, 2021, 02:51:52 pm

Title: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: cicerokid on August 16, 2021, 02:51:52 pm: Hi, Folks

I have been collating coins with Owl standing on Amphora reverses AV,AR & AE.

I have images of Athens and some imitatives,Priene,Seleucid,Arab,Synnada and Kalakte in Sicily.

Many of the independant cities of Crete imitated Athens and are in Svoronos Crete,but one AE in Forum's past sales is only in Weber as 4577 and plate 4567 from Polyrhenium. I cannot find the plates anywhere has anyone got access to Weber plates?

If anyone knows of other Owl on Amphora types I will intrested to know.

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Kevin D on August 16, 2021, 10:01:28 pm: I found the Weber Plates online years ago, but I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia University. They were ok scans of the original plates, I think. I have dial-up internet access but will try to load the entire Plate 166 as well as just coin numbers 4576 (possibly your target coin), and 4577.

In the Weber text for these coins, it is said that coin number 4576 (strung bow/arrow head) is "under 4577" in the plates, while the coin number 4577 (Athena head/owl on amphora) is "under 4576" in the plates. Apparently the images for these coins were incorrectly numbered on Plate 166.

Both coins are listed as issues of Polyrhenium in the Weber text.
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Altamura on August 17, 2021, 02:18:38 am: Quote from: Kevin D on August 16, 2021, 10:01:28 pm
... I found the Weber Plates online years ago, but I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia University. ...

I did also used this link for years, but since some time it is dead :(.

But you find all books about the Weber collection on archive.org, including the plates: https://archive.org/search.php?query=%22The%20Weber%20collection%22
or alternatively on hathitrust.org: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001596886?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=The%20Weber%20collection&ft=ft
(being outside of the US you perhaps have to use a proxy or the HathiDownloadHelper).

The description for 4567, told to be from Phalasarna (not Polyrhenium), can be seen here: https://archive.org/details/cu31924022701951/page/n553/mode/2up
that for 4577 (the one with the owl) here: https://archive.org/details/cu31924022701951/page/n555/mode/2up

Regards

Altamura
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Altamura on August 17, 2021, 02:38:24 am: Quote from: cicerokid on August 16, 2021, 02:51:52 pm
... Many of the independant cities of Crete imitated Athens and are in Svoronos Crete,but one AE in Forum's past sales is only in Weber as 4577 and plate 4567 from Polyrhenium. ...

In the ANS collection online there are three specimens with pictures:
http://numismatics.org/search/results?q=fulltext%3Aowl+AND+fulltext%3Aamphora+AND+deity_facet%3A%22Athena%22+AND+material_facet%3A%22Bronze%22+AND+mint_facet%3A%22Polyrhenium%22
All three are referring to "Svoronos 50.pl.XXVI.28" where you easily find it. These seem to be the same type as the coin you are showing here.

Regards

Altamura
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Altamura on August 17, 2021, 04:52:21 am: Quote from: cicerokid on August 16, 2021, 02:51:52 pm
... I have images of Athens and some imitatives,Priene,Seleucid,Arab,Synnada and Kalakte in Sicily. ...
Do you also have Delos as Athenian cleruchy (Kroll 830)?
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b10311219b
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/btv1b8560154v

Regards

Altamura
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: cicerokid on August 17, 2021, 06:39:06 am: Hi Altamura,

That is phenomenal work!

Thanks for your sterling efforts, they are a great help in my quest.

Kind Regards,

John
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Kevin D on August 17, 2021, 10:43:01 am: Quote from: Altamura on August 17, 2021, 02:18:38 am
Quote from: Kevin D on August 16, 2021, 10:01:28 pm
... I found the Weber Plates online years ago, but I can't remember where. Maybe Virginia University. ...

I did also used this link for years, but since some time it is dead :(.

But you find all books about the Weber collection on archive.org, including the plates: https://archive.org/search.php?query=%22The%20Weber%20collection%22
or alternatively on hathitrust.org: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001596886?type%5B%5D=all&lookfor%5B%5D=The%20Weber%20collection&ft=ft
(being outside of the US you perhaps have to use a proxy or the HathiDownloadHelper).

Yes, it is the University of Virginia, and the link is now dead. The same Weber Plates file that was on the University of Virginia site can be found at Archive.org here:
https://archive.org/details/WeberPlates/mode/2up

I also have Weber plates from Hathitrust. The resolution for these is a bit lower, but still good and with a different 'gray scale' look, vs the yellow tint of the other file. The direct link for volume two on my Hathitrust cover sheet is:
http://hdl.handle.net/2027/coo1.ark:/13960/t1tf0cv55
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: cicerokid on August 17, 2021, 12:00:14 pm: Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the newer links to Weber.

All the best,

John
Title: Re: Owl on Amphora coins.
Post by: Joe Sermarini on August 18, 2021, 07:23:24 am: Updated Weber pdf links added to NumisWiki.