Dating of Republican coin

[Aelia]

Dear colleagues!

I would like to ask somebody  for explanation of the principles of Roman republican coins dating by the example of the Libo-Paullus coin of 62 (?) BC. I mean this one:



http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=18118&AucID=17&Lot=287

L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus und L. Scribonius Libo 62. Denar. PAVLLVS. LEPIDVS - CONCORD Concordia mit Schleier und D. n. r. Rv. PVTEAL SCRIBON/LIBO Puteal Scribonias wie vorher. 3,97 g. Cr. 417/1a. Syd. 927. Selten.

The problem is following. In this case (as well as in some others) the age of monetalis (Libo) according to the numismatic evidence seems to be incompatible with his age according  to the genealogical evidence. If he was monetalis in 62 BC, he had to be born circa 90 BC (his colleague Paullus was born even before 93 BC). But Caesar Octavianus, his sister’s husband, was born in 63 BC. What does it mean? Was Scribonia more than 20 years younger than her brother or  nearly 20 years elder than her husband?
If it is possible, I would like to know the mechanism of attributing this coin to 62 BC. Why is it 62 exactly, not 63, not 70? Or, may by, the date is approximate? Could somebody please render the logic of argumentation (for this very coin)? I would be extremely grateful.

I apologise for my possible mistakes. I am only a amateur in Roman history, and English is not my native language.

[Jochen]

Hi Aelia!

The names of the moneyers are known because they were listed by the Romans year after year. The Romans were good administrators and burocrats! And 62 BC (in our dating) the two listed moneyers were Lucius Aemilius Lepidus Paullus (Paullus Lepidus) and Lucius Scribonius Libo. These dates are relative sure for the time after 155 BC except some critical years. Critical years f.e. are the time of the war between Caesar and Pompeius.

The moneyer Lucius Scribonius Libo was not the brother but the father of Scribonia (2nd wife of Octavian after Cornelia). So the difference of 20 years which you have detected is easily explained! The matter is a bit complicated because Scribonia has had a brother named Scribonius Libo too. This was the father-in-law of Sextius Pompeius.

Best regards

[Bohemond]

One of the latest catalogues on the market is the one from the german Rainer Albert. Die Münzen der Römischen Republik.

For this denarius he first gives the date of 62 BC. However further down he states and I quote: 'Neudatierung: 63".

This neudatierung is mentioned on many denarii and am now wondering which date is correct. Other denarii that have been attributed for the year 62BC Albert moved back to 63 BC: L. Aemilius Lepidus Paullus ( Sear 366 and 368 ).

One coin he dates in 62 BC is L. Roscius Fabatus which is attributed by Sear ( 363 ) and Crawford ( 412/1 ) to the year 64.

Very confusing 

Bohemond

[Aelia]

Thank you for the replies!

The names of the moneyers are known because they were listed by the Romans year after year. The Romans were good administrators and burocrats! And 62 BC (in our dating) the two listed moneyers were Lucius Aemilius Lepidus Paullus (Paullus Lepidus) and Lucius Scribonius Libo. These dates are relative sure for the time after 155 BC except some critical years. Critical years f.e. are the time of the war between Caesar and Pompeius.

But where are they listed? Was it some kind of fasti? What is the name of the source and where is it published?
Can I look at them somewhere?
Unfortunately, I have never heard about such lists of moneyers (I mean lists composed by Romans themselves, not by contemporary scholars).

The moneyer Lucius Scribonius Libo was not the brother but the father of Scribonia (2nd wife of Octavian after Cornelia). So the difference of 20 years which you have detected is easily explained! The matter is a bit complicated because Scribonia has had a brother named Scribonius Libo too. This was the father-in-law of Sextius Pompeius.

If he was her father, there emerge another questions. His son (the father-in-law of Sextus Pompey) was senator in 56 BC. Hence Libo the son had to be born before 86. Hence his father was born near 110. In 62 he was 48 years old. It is too late for a moneyer...

PS. The first wife of Octavianus was Claudia, not Cornelia. 

[Jochen]

Naturally Clodia, not Cornelia! I have confused it with the first wife of Julius Caesar!

Best regards

[curtislclay]

Lists of important magistrates (especially consuls) survive in inscriptions or in manuscripts copying ancient texts, but no lists of moneyers.

The coins themselves are, in most cases, the only records we have that the men named served as moneyers.

For determining when they held office and produced their coins, we are dependent primarily on numismatic evidence, for instance a series of hoards, each one of which adds a few new moneyers, for establishing the sequence of the moneyers; and stylistic or typological links among the various coin types.

[PeterD]

The lists of moneyers the Romans made haven't neccessarily come down to us intact. They have been reconstructed by modern scholarship. Some dates have moved a year or two either way as more has been discovered. This is one list:
http://www258.pair.com/denarius/cgi-bin/plainer.pl?file=b

What makes it confusing to us is that there were only a few families in republican Rome that were eligible to provide moneyers and sons tended to have almost the same names as their fathers, grandfathers and ancestors, making it difficult to know who was related to who.