Numismatic and History Discussion Forums > Greek Coins Discussion Forum
Another coin with provenance
cicerokid:
Hi Ron C2, Never mind the drachms, what about the fantastic tetradrachms of lX. And the tetradrachms in the name and types on Antiochos Vll of the Seleucid Empire. Who were they fighting to need so many coins?
esnible:
There was a bit of traffic on your other thread before it was deleted. I responded at length.
You are suggesting that "most of Forum" practices "useless ownership". What is your vision of collecting?
I would like to write and publish more but often have a hard time thinking of new things to say about ancient coins.
cicerokid:
Their is plenty to do in the early late catalogue NewStyles, this is the time when it appears that the Pontic influence in the symbols can be adduced. Some of the coins have NO known obverse or other die links, thus they are orphans. Hoards need looking at., Genuine examples on the Bay need looking at. All are available except the NewStyle in the name of King Mithradates for which the Bronze/Lead is commonly available.What about the sequencing? Where belongs Kernos? Mattingly now, following Boehringer now wants to split up the 2nd & 3rd issue of Xenocles and Harmoxenos.
Once Mr Mattingly wanted a gap in issues during those stressful times He died not too long ago..what was his final position...it could be yours ( or mine but I keep hopping like a cat on a hot tin roof) The famous Sullan siege and beyond.. when did the NewStyles start again..did they ever stop. What of the ethnicless O Demos when and where What of the
ethniced 2 Ear of Grain which is in many ways a dead ringer for O Demos but with magistrates but with a guy with a Roman name Kointos. Was he the same Kointos who was 2nd magistrate on the controversial Roma & Nike issue. Is it really Roma? Yes its die linked to the "Roma" issue . And that is drachm die linked to Apellikon whose symbol the Griffin adorns the coins...btw the Griffin is the badge of Teos. Just where he is supposed to come from. Is he the same Apellikon who used to steal library rolls. And is he the same Appelikon who led a failed attack on the treasury of Delos. Cutting along there is not enough years and issues between the first 10 post Sullan's till the first appearance of the NEO Dionysos c 42 BC in Athens. So I think they are private or organisational issues. Memories of a better past. Or ...where the NewStyles never strictly yearly issues... the 29 coin type of the 28 first issues means what? What's that, I have often mentioned it hoping that someone would notice it...but nobody ever did. Look what Mattingly did with the post Sullan sequence in L. Julius Caesar: Governor of Macedonia. Look at Thompsons sequencing in NSSCA adjust for 29 years in the great chronology battles ( or not)
Are the Amphora letters actually month indicators and what of the second control. Someone thinks that by selecting this and that it tells how many coins were issued!
It can be all up in the air, if you want it to be. This is not a single issue this is a series spanning hellenistic times to Roman times. Is it a Proxy Roman coinage, what was it for? What of the coins before the NewStyle of Athens. Anyone got one? Know what they look like?
Where does it fit in with the other Stephanophores, the artists of Dionysos., Lebos, Tenedos,Kyme, Myrina, Magnesia and the coinages of the gods the Kyborrai mystery,,.Attalid coinage generally worked out by Westermark.
So much, most Roman coins can be dated to the year and which mint and officina, there must be mysteries in them but not as great as the NewStyles and then add the coins of the gods and others. READ the Great Transformation by Meadows.
Now truly tell me that none of it is interesting . You don't need to afford masterpieces like Mark & Lottie you can always look at catalogues and papers and books. By all means have a LRB for texture ( I've still got 2 DN Valens) one bought in the shadow of the Great Pyramid and a much much better example from e-bay to see what they really looked like..from kyzykios I believe but they photograph badly. But I cann0ot honestly say they stir the pot for me.
esnible:
--- Quote from: cicerokid on February 22, 2022, 02:58:58 pm ---Now truly tell me that none of it is interesting .
--- End quote ---
It's all somewhat interesting, John.
I keep extensive photo files of several series of coins, with the aim of publishing research if the data takes me where I think it will.
I don't have the ability to do die studies on every coin series, especially series I don't specialize in. I can't really do much to study a single New Style tetradrachm, combining the obverse die for Thompson 961 with reverse die of 958a. If you recording known die pairs I will be happy to supply you with the weight and axis.
I believe the mainstream theory that the amphora letters are months. For the example I am talking about the dating is usually given as 98/97 BC. Thompson 958a's reverse has the month M, "Skirophorion" in the Attic calendar, which is the last month. So June/July 97 BC? The coins use a lunar calendar, with occasional N for month 13, but there was no N in 97 BC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attic_calendar
According to http://astropixels.com/ephemeris/phasescat/phases-0099.html, the moon was new on Jun 13, 97 BC and on Jul 13, 97 BC.
Using the astropixels.com site was my idea; I don't think other New Style collectors are using it to look up precise dates for their Amphora-lettered coins. Unfortunately, even if the Amphora letters represent months we don't know if the dies were destroyed at the end of the month or continued to be used. I can pretend the last day of issue for Thompson 958a is Jul 13, 97 BC but have no way to be sure.
I was unaware of https://www.academia.edu/36407984/The_Great_Transformation_Civic_Coin_Design_in_the_Second_Century_BC until this thread.
Do you really only collect coins from series in which you are keeping up with the latest academic literature? Only coins you intend to publish to advance scholarship for the series?
cicerokid:
Yes I got rid of my Kyme and Myrina, My Pontic tetradrachm, My Odessos Mithradates, My Bithynian Nicomedes lV, my middle catalogue NewStyles inc the representatives of the over-represented type and a few others keeping Triptolemos, Double Cornucopia, Bow & Quiver,Lionskin and Tyche. cos I like them.
I was made redundant and the collecting had to fund itself.
I no longer have those constraints.
Not even I can afford Stephanophores other than Athens.
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