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Gold content of early Striated Electrum Types

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Kevin D:
Here is an image of the obverse of another ‘bee’ trite. I don’t see a head, or that one was intended. I don’t see anything I would describe as legs or wings. On these coins, in the area where a head would be located, I see only the same iregular pattern as that seen on each side of the thorax and abdomen.

HA is describing the bee on these coins as being 'seen from above' (i.e. from the back). I know Joe Linzalone has described them as showing a 'bee walking left'. Others describe only a 'primitive bee'.

glebe:

--- Quote from: Kevin D on October 22, 2021, 11:31:32 pm ---Here is an image of the obverse of another ‘bee’ trite. I don’t see a head, or that one was intended. I don’t see anything I would describe as legs or wings. On these coins, in the area where a head would be located, I see only the same iregular pattern as that seen on each side of the thorax and abdomen.

HA is describing the bee on these coins as being 'seen from above' (i.e. from the back). I know Joe Linzalone has described them as showing a 'bee walking left'. Others describe only a 'primitive bee'.

--- End quote ---

Well if there's a thorax and abdomen there's gotta be a head, and in fact you can see a bit of it at the bottom.

Actually I suspect that the bee was actually meant to be shown on a striated background, along the lines of the various other early types (Linzalone p.176ff). This could be why Weidauer made the bees Series V, following the striated goat and cock types Series III and IV.

For another example see below, but anyway whatever the bee is doing it would be very interesting to know the alloy composition.

Ross G.

Kevin D:
Your suggestion that these coins might show a striated background does make sense to me. This might well be the case. The bees seem to me to be depicted with the head mostly or totaly out of view, as they often appear when seen from above (i.e. the back) when on a flower (head arched into the flower and out of view).

Whether on a flower or in that view but on a striated field, when thought of like this these coins begin to look less crude or 'primitive' than they are often thought to be.

Agree it would be good to know the alloy composition.

From Dane Kurth's translation of Weidauer:

Dane Kurth Translation  (2009)
Liselotte Weidauer  ‘Problems of Early Electrum Coinage’  (1975)
Page 17 and Plate 4. Milesian Standard. Group V. Bee. Coin numbers 29-32, Trites struck on the Milesian weight standard. O: Bee left surrounded by wedge-shape punches of different thicknesses. Rough die work. Bee's body only as a schematic rendition. R: Two incuse squares side by side. The corner of one of the punches was broken off.

[I believe that in fact the reverse is a single oblong incuse punch]

Kevin D:

--- Quote from: glebe on October 22, 2021, 09:17:44 pm ---<<Page 348, Smooth and Striated Surface Coins. “...Some initial trends can be determined from our small sample; however, it would be necessary to enlarge it to answer the following questions: do the striated coins always have a fixed elemental composition, or can different compositions be distinguished that agree with the reverse punches?...”>>

The "smooth" types are interesting ones here - one could be Weidauer Series I, but the two silvery types I don't recognise. Unless perhaps they are Linzalone's "Ram from above" type (Linz. 1110, 1012 or similar) where the obverse design is often worn off (these have a variety of fancy geometric punches as opposed to the rough punches of Weidauer Series I).

Ross G.

--- End quote ---

Plate images for the Blet-Lemarquand and Duyrat article would have been nice.

I believe I have seen striated coins which show a considerable variation of alloy from the norm (if there is a norm), some looking much more "silvery"; but trying to judge an alloy from photos can be misleading.

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