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Author Topic: Collecting Post-Alexander coins  (Read 4614 times)

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Offline AlexB

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Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« on: June 09, 2004, 09:33:04 pm »
Dear All

I am hoping to form a small collection for display of silver tetradrachm coins (of at least gVF quality) issued by the Generals Cassander, Lysimachus, Seleucus, Ptolemy and Antigonus post Alexanders death. I am hoping to find such coins issued with their form (actual or likeness if none) upon the obverse.
Also does Alexander himself have any coins in his likeness issued whilst he was alive? (I dont think so).
I would be grateful for any assistance you can give me in this matter.
 ???
'Never has so much been owed, to so many, by so few' - Mervyn King, Governor, Bank of England, 20th Oct 2009

ember

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2004, 12:03:51 am »
Hi,

The only lifetime coins of Alexander III known to have his image on are the very rare five sheckel/medallions commerating the defeat of Porus.  There is a controversy on whether the lifetime tets of Alexander and his father are showing themselves as Herakles and Zeus, respectively, or are only portraying images of the gods.

Darcy

Offline LordBest

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2004, 12:06:44 am »
Give the smilarity in looks between the remaining Alexander III sculptures from the Hellenistic period, including the onl known lifetime portrait, and the portraits of Herakles on coins in my opinion the argument is moot, its him. Im not an expert though.
The only two successors that im not sure about are Cassander and Antigonus, all the rest minted coins and id imagine those two did as well, its just ive never seen them. But then, i havent really looked. ::)
                                      LordBest. 8)

ember

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2004, 12:13:23 am »
Hi,

I agree, I think they are his likeness, as well.  The images of Alexander on the coins of Ptolemy and Seleucos as satraps are too much like his own coinage to be a coincidence IMHO.  I was merely trying to be un-biased in my first post.  :)

Darcy

Offline AlexB

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2004, 12:22:36 am »
Thanks to you both.

I guess I am looking for a pre 323BC Alexander III tetradrachm and circa 300BC for other generals. Hopefully with 'King ......' written on reverse to qualify them as issues after Demetrios's issue with his own image.

BTW who got Carthage - Ptolemy?

Rgds

Alex
'Never has so much been owed, to so many, by so few' - Mervyn King, Governor, Bank of England, 20th Oct 2009

Offline LordBest

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2004, 12:34:02 am »
I thought Carthage was independant from any of the successors?
                                     LordBest. 8)

Offline AlexB

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2004, 12:52:11 am »
It was certainly under Macedonian control.

'Cyrene, the capital of the ancient North African kingdom of Cyrenaica, submitted to Alexander soon afterwards, extending his dominion to the lands of the city of Carthage, where his troops set up a ruling aristocracy (and from whom ultimately the great General Hannibal would emerge to test the Roman Empire some 200 years later)'

So by whom....anyone?

Think Ptolemy or Cassander? ???
'Never has so much been owed, to so many, by so few' - Mervyn King, Governor, Bank of England, 20th Oct 2009

Offline curtislclay

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2004, 01:07:15 am »
       What is your source?  In Der kleine Pauly, Oxf. Class. Dict., and Historia Numorum, there is no word of Carthage ever being ruled by Alexander.
       You say Alexander's troops set up the ruling aristocracy that later produced Hannibal.  But acc. to OCD p. 208, a Carthaginian general  Hamilcar was defeated at Himera in 480 BC, for which his grandson HANNIBAL took revenge by destroying Himera in 409.  That is 150-75 years before Alexander, yet HAMILCARS and HANNIBALS were already prominent in Carthage!
Curtis Clay

ember

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2004, 01:30:32 am »
Hi,
Justin 12.13.1-2

"While he was on his way back to Babylonia from the remote shores of the Ocean, Alexander was brought word that his arrival in Babylonia was awaited by embassies from Carthage and the other African states, and also by embassies from Spain, Sicily, Gaul, and Sardinia,..."
(from "Historical Sources in Translation   Alexander the Great" by Waldemar Heckel and J C Yardley)

Seems strange they would be sending diplomats if they were already conquered?

Darcy

Offline AlexB

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2004, 01:31:07 am »
I think you are right -

'When Alexander completed his conquest they sent letters of congratulations and gifts - although fortunately for them Alexander didn't turn his attention to them.  Alexander was apparently planning on an expedition against Carthage and Italy, but died of a fever before completing his preparations.  The question of whether or not he could have been successful is moot, however it would have been a different sort of war than the Persian conquest.  Carthage would not likely collapse after a defeat or two, Alexander was short on manpower (he was forced to reorganize his phalanxes with only the front three ranks being Macedonians, the remainder Persian and other levees) and how the naval conflict would resolve is unknown.  Rome and Carthage were allied at this time, and the Romans were fond of saying that if Alexander had gone west instead of east he would not be known as "The Great". '

That answers that then

Thanks
'Never has so much been owed, to so many, by so few' - Mervyn King, Governor, Bank of England, 20th Oct 2009

Offline Peattie

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2004, 03:09:52 am »
Carthage was not involved in any conflict with Alexander despite the attempt by Tyre to get the Carthagians to assist them when Alexander attacked and destroyed their mother city in 332 B.C, they were sympathetic to Tyre but were heavily involved in Syracuse around the same time, so did not send help.

Apparently Alexander had plans to attack Carthage and had even started building a fleet but that was as far as it got with his untimely death. So no Carthage was not drawn into Alexanders wars.

Offline Reid Goldsborough

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Re:Collecting Post-Alexander coins
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2004, 07:09:36 pm »
Every numismatist writing in depth about Alexander the Great over the past half century agrees that there's no proof or convincing evidence that he put his own portrait on his coins. The portrait is that of Herakles, clearly, since in the majority of cases it's the very same portrait that appeared on other Macedonian coins before Alexander, including those before he was born. The picture gets a bit muddier with some of Alexander's lifetime issues, such as those from Babylon, that appear to incorporate some of what are likely Alexander's facial features on the Herakles portrait, such as his fierce gaze. But this was probably done unofficially by mint magistrates or die engravors, not through an official directive from Alexander, as it's far from universal. The picture is complicated further by the fact that in ancient times, particularly after Alexander's death, it's likely that at least in some cases people regarded the Herakles portrait on Alexander-type silver coinage as that of Alexander himself, given subsequent coinage. But it clearly wasn't intended that way with the majority of his lifetime coinage, on which the posthumous coinage was based. The first portrait of Alexande the Great to appear on standard circulating coins appeared on that of his successors, Ptolemy I, Lysimachos (the most beautifully rendered portrait), and possibly Seleukos I (scholars differ on this). Other portraits of Alexander the Great appeared later on Aesillas tetradrachms and Koinon of Macedonian bronzes and on other less voluminous coinage as well.
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