Lead Flans

[Aarmale]

There are some coins of Jannaeus that have lead flans when they shouldn't.
This coin is made out of lead, although it was struck with dies of the Jananeus Anchor-Star type.

This type has a regular obverse for these lead pieces, but it is muled with a double cornucopia.

Does anyone know why these exist?

Thanks,
Aarmale

[cmcdon0923]

Speaking of lead flans....

A few weeks ago I attended a local show here in the Dallas area and one of the larger ancients dealers was in attendance.  I always like to look through his "goodie bags" for discounted items.  In going through one of the bags I came across a flip labeled "Judaea / Alexander Jannaeus / lead prutah"

The price was right so I put the coin off to the side and kept looking....picking out a decent Pilate piece and a Hendin 494 prutah of Herod I.

After I got home, I examined the lead coin closer, and it appears to be a blank flan.  What I thought was a remnant of the obverse design appears to be the raised center dot prevelant of the cast flans.  The reverse is completely flat and devoid of any trace of a legend.  The "coin" weighs 4.8 grams.

The flan is still thick and rounded when viewed from the edge, consistent with never having been struck and subsequently flattened by the force of the blow.

Thought??  Comments ??

[Aarmale]

Very interesting!  Prutah flans have been found, though they are rare.  I have never heard of an unstruck lead piece! 
Do you have pictures?
I think the lead coins are the most mysterious Hasmonean pieces.

Here is a prutah flan:




-Aarmale

[cmcdon0923]

I don't have a pic at the moment as everything is in the bank safe deposit due to us leaving for a cruise in two days. 

But, other than it not having a pronounced "fish tail" like that one, it's very close....especially the pronounced dot like in the photo.  It's also a nice light lead gray color with "desert patina".

[Robert_Brenchley]

There are lead coins of other rulers as well; I have one of Obodas III of Nabataea. If I remember correctly, they're all found in Transjordan. The interesting thing about the Jannaeus coins is that they're a different type to his AE's. They're a bit of a mystery.

[Aarmale]

I remember reading that most lead pieces are from Transjordan. The Nabataeans have many lead varieties, many are still unlisted, but nowhere as strange as the Hasmonean pieces.  

Nabataean lead piece of Aretas IV (unlisted):

Many Nabataean pieces have bull running right and a bust.  The following has also an inscription, but I can't read it.
[BROKEN PHOTO LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

Here are some of the rarer lead pieces of Jannaeus with dots.


Here are some more Judaean lead varieties I found:


MCP writes about the following: "About this specimen, the dealer wrote: "Lead coin found in a Judean hoard"."


This coin was also found with Judaean prutot:
[BROKEN PHOTO LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]


Regards,


Aarmale

[a]

Hi Aarmale,

The last object doesn't look as coin. I have similar one - it is about 22mm. It indeed was found together with Judean coins. Where you found reference for it?

Best Regards,
Explorer

[Aarmale]

Hi Aarmale,

The last object doesn't look as coin. I have similar one - it is about 22mm. It indeed was found together with Judean coins. Where you found reference for it?

You are right, the last object doesn't looks like a coin.  Token of some sort perhaps?

I don't know about any references for obscure lead pieces such as this.  The seller described this coin as being 16mm, 1.88 grams.

Do you have pictures of your coin?

-Regards,

Aarmale

[Ibex-coins]

Meshorer has a nice section in TJC on the lead coins of Alexander Jannaeus.  To Robert's point Meshorer says that the lead prutot are almost exclusively found in Transjordan.  The coins he said were probably struck at a secondary mint in Transjordan and he notes that stylistically they usually differ from the classical bronze ones.  I recall in the past few years reading a newer article about these coins, but at the momment I can't locate the reference.
Ronn Berrol

[Aarmale]

I just realized I downloaded the article "Four New Jewish Lead Coins or Tokens" by D. Hendin.
The first type is an anchor with crossbar and central pellet on the obverse, and a star with six rays on the reverse.
The second type is a star with six rays in a circle on the obverse, alternating with six dots, and the reverse is blank.
The third type has double cornucopiae with rod between horns, border of dots on the obverse, and on the reverse, a stylized palm tree between two lilies.
The fourth type has double cornucopiae with palm tree between horns, Ancient Hebrew Yud above on the obverse, and on the reverse, unclear design, Yud to right.

[Ibex-coins]

I know there is a newer reference than Hendin's article, I will try and locate it for you

[Ibex-coins]

I found the article I was looking for, In INR vol 1, 2006, A Late Hellenistic Lead Coinage from Gaza, Oliver Hoover also discussed the series.  On page 32 he outlines his theory that these lead issues could have be minted to pay Jannaeus's troops while they were campaigning aganist the territories of transjordan.

Hope that helps,
Ronn Berrol

[Lucas H]

I understood the lead pieces were found in the Transjordan, and I thought many were found in hoards by themselves leading to the hypothesis they were tokens that could be redeemed for something (grain, oil, or whatever) as an attempt for Jannaeus to ingratiate himself with his subjects.  Thanks for the valuable information here thus far.  I had no idea there were so many types, but thought they were limited to the anchor type.  Fascinating. 

I'll throw my one poor example in here.  I thought it was just a piece of sandstone at first, but I can just make out part of the circle and anchor. 

Are these properly referred to as prutah or tesserae?

[Robert_Brenchley]

Where did you get the article, Aarmale?

[Aarmale]

If you want the article, send me a PM, and I will email it to you.


-Aarmale

[a]

Hi Aarmale,

Please see my lead piece, which was found together with Judean issues. As I mentioned, I don't think this is coin, but some part of jewel.

Regards,
Explorer

[Aarmale]

You are probably right.  I do not think this is an official coin, but rather, a token of some sort, a seal or a part of some jewelery.

Regards,

Aarmale