Source of "Desert patina" coins??

[Curio Bill]

What is the Source country of "Desert patina" coins?? (The dark ones with the sandy-tan patina) Where do they come from?? Thanks, Bill

[SVLLAIMP]

Now I am in no way sure that my answer is correct, but I believe that most of them are from the Holyland and surrounding areas.  But I imagine that any dry, sandy place will give such a patina, so some could come from other areas in Africa and perhaps Spain.

[Arminius]

My desert patinas, especially those attractive red ones, are most from mints in ancient Syria, then followed by southern Turkey, Lebanon, Arabia, Judaea and Egypt.
Less frequent from the rest of the Mediterranean areas.

[wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)]

I think a "desert patina" is just impacted dirt, so that it may appear on a coin from almost anywhere in the Mediterranean, Asia Minor, even Europe.  The patina, if any, appears on the coin under the encrusted dirt.  George S.

[areich]

Sometimes it comes from a bucket and stays on with the help of glue. 

[cliff_marsland]

My favorite is the blue patina.  I'm not a huge fan of the desert patina and relatively few coins of mine have it, except for some Byzantines and a Theodosius.

I usually opt for Western mints when possible, so that probably explains the lack of desert patinas in my collection, although I went through a period where I collected by patina.

Sometime when I'm in the mood for 270s coins, I'd like to find a fully silvered Aurelian/Vabalathus with no sand.  It'll have to wait, as I'm not currently in an Ant. mood.

That's what drove me away from uncleaned coins.  They usually looked like they came from the desert when I got done, as I usually failed to get all the dirt off, although most of the coins originally came from the Balkans.

[Philoromaos]

This bronze of mine is from Side in southern turkey. It has some nice orange sand patina, would look nicer with a litte more coverage though.

[Potator II]

Here is an example where the sand patina enhances the beauty of the coin (IMHO)

Potator

PS : as to tell in which it has been found, I don't know

[Randygeki(h2)]

Here is an example where the sand patina enhances the beauty of the coin (IMHO)

Potator

PS : as to tell in which it has been found, I don't know

Thats an awsome coin

[commodus]

Generally from the East, as described above -- Turkey, Syria and the Levant, etc... However, desert patina can also be seen in North African and, not infrequently, Spanish finds. I've had some lovely uncleaned lots originating in Spain that all had desert patina. That's been a while, though. Most of the uncleaned lots I'm seeing these days are crusty Balkan LRB junk. Where'd all the good desert patina uncleaneds go???

[simmurray]

Generally from the East, as described above -- Turkey, Syria and the Levant, etc... However, desert patina can also be seen in North African and, not infrequently, Spanish finds. I've had some lovely uncleaned lots originating in Spain that all ahd desert patina. That's been a while, though. Most of the uncleaned lots I'm seeing these days are crusty Balkan LRB junk. Where'd all the good desert patina uncleaneds go???

I was just going to post that several of my Spanish uncleaned are desert patina and I have a fair few from Syria.  Most are light sand but the orange sand patina seems fair less common

I love cleaning sand patina, normally easier than the Western uncleaned

Steve

[SC]

I have been told that the orange or reddish "desert patina" comes from northern Syria.

I am not sure if that is true or if it is that simple.  Though much of the "Holy Land' has soil that looks very similar there are pockets of different soils all through the region.  Thus the orange or reddish may come from may areas.

Shawn

[areich]

Here's a nice sand patina, you don't find them often from Asia minor.
What a beauty.

[Enodia]

Here's a nice sand patina, you don't find them often from Asia minor.
What a beauty.

it is quite an impressive patina, but is it natural? it looks manipulated to me, almost flourescent.

[Dino]

it is quite an impressive patina, but is it natural? it looks manipulated to me, almost flourescent.

Is it just the photo?

Here's mine.  I focus mostly on Greek coins, but couldn't resist this one because of the sandy patina.

[Maffeo]

But is the so-called "desert patina" patina at all? Real patina is a chemical modification of metal, desert "patina" is just accumulated grime.

OK, go ahead and blast me - sand blast me! 

[areich]

Sometimes it can accumulate quite quickly.

[Mark Fox]

Dear Board,

Apparently, some handsome looking LRBs with "desert patina" can also be found in Hampshire, England.  Look very much like the coins listed here.

I could be wrong, but I believe what we call desert patina is also a chemical reaction with a coin's surface which has cemented a lot of foreign matter in the process.  If it is just grime, you have to ask then, what is binding the sand so strongly together and to a coin's surface?       


Best regards,

Mark Fox
Michigan

[areich]

There are those coins where the sand lies on a nice smooth patina, those where the sand is part of the patina and those, like I strongly supect the coin I posted, where the sand is glued to the coin.

[dltcoins]

There are those coins where the sand lies on a nice smooth patina, those where the sand is part of the patina and those, like I strongly supect the coin I posted, where the sand is glued to the coin.

Patinas are like blondes. Some are real, many are not.

[simmurray]

Deserts are full of sand; Hampshire also has sand - its coastal.  Sand can dry hard and hence, its use in sand based cement products

So should it be desert patina or sand patina or is it patina is a different discussion - coins with sand on are immense either way 

Steve

[casata137ec]

I hate to ask a stupid question (but I will anyway! lol) but isn't a desert patina just pretty dirt? The true patina is the black on the coin beneath...right?

Chris

[Lloyd Taylor]

What is the Source country of "Desert patina" coins?? (The dark ones with the sandy-tan patina) Where do they come from??

I hate to ask a stupid question (but I will anyway! lol) but isn't a desert patina just pretty dirt? The true patina is the black on the coin beneath...right?

Not a stupid question at all, but a good one to ask.  However, many wont like the answer and remember that as you observe that a lot of what is incorrectly described as desert patina is nothing of the sort, just crud hanging onto a partially, or poorly cleaned coin.

Technically genuine desert patina is quite rare and does not consist of sand particles (which range in in size 1/16 - 2 mm in size and in the case of desert sand consist of almost pure silica). Rather it is of fine clay size particles consisting of mineral oxides and clay silicates, rather than the pure silica of which sand is composed. Also called desert varnish it is a thin, dark orange, or red to black mineral coating (generally iron and manganese oxides and clay silicates) deposited on pebbles and rocks and most rarely coins on the surface of desert regions. As soil moisture is brought to the surface by capillary action evaporates, dissolved minerals are deposited on the surface.  Wind abrasion removes the softer salts and polishes the patina to a glossy finish. The rate of patina formation is slow and it is considered to most likely take about 2,000 years to form. Because it forms at, or extremely close to the surface, it is unusual to find well preserved coins with such a patina.

The multicolored often near fluorescent stuff we see on most coins described as desert patina is artificial. It is applied by those seeking to enhance the visual appeal and thus value of coins in the eyes of the less knowledgeable collector. As such, it originates in just about every country on earth where there is a trade in ancient coins and the environmental conditions for its origin are nothing more than quiet, well lit work bench.