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Author Topic: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible  (Read 1559 times)

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Offline Tibsi

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New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« on: December 19, 2021, 05:51:37 pm »
Hi,

Here is the newest modern cast fake coin from seller numis-gallery. Terrible!
The bottom coin is mine since 2013. The copy made by my picture. But how?

Offline Ron C2

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2021, 05:56:27 pm »
I would say a previous owner took impressions of your coin before it was yours. 
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Offline Ron C2

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2021, 09:21:03 pm »
The bottom one is crisper than the top. Between those 2, the top one is a more obvious fake.
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2021, 09:38:25 pm »
On the reverse, the lower part of the 'staff' is well defined on the top coin, but not so on Tibsi's coin. This could mean that the mold was simply touched up by the forger. But it could also mean that the authentic mother coin has a well defined lower 'staff' which transfered well to the top coin but not to Tibsi's coin.

Offline Tibsi

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2021, 05:32:28 am »
Both of these coins disturb me as being legit. Obviously one or both can't be.
Would love to hear more opinions on both of these.

The top coin is a cast fake, and the owner (numis-gallery) sell many other fake coins too. This is not a first case of this seller.
The bottom coin is mine since 2013. It's 100% geniue.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2021, 07:34:31 am »
Not that anyone doubts your judgement tsibi, but how are you 100% certain your coin is not also a fake of some sort?

At the very least, your coin has been through one of the fakery schools, which is enough to cast doubt on it.

Have you had it under a microscope yet?
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Offline Tibsi

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2021, 07:57:29 am »
Not that anyone doubts your judgement tsibi, but how are you 100% certain your coin is not also a fake of some sort?

At the very least, your coin has been through one of the fakery schools, which is enough to cast doubt on it.

Have you had it under a microscope yet?

My coin was hammered, it is not a cast. The fake coin is a high precision cast.
OK, I will make close-up photos about this coin too, but I must get it from bank tresor first, and this is not a simple procedure.  :)
But this is the 2nd case, here is my VIRTVS's close-up photos:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=127051.0

Offline Dominic T

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2021, 08:20:27 am »
We have an expert here about Gordian III coins: Chut. He’s mostly posting on French forum, but maybe you should PM him to get his opinion ?
DT

Offline glebe

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2021, 04:32:55 pm »
On the reverse, the lower part of the 'staff' is well defined on the top coin, but not so on Tibsi's coin. This could mean that the mold was simply touched up by the forger.

Furthermore there's damage on the bottom reverse between 3 and 4 o'clock which is not visible on the upper coin.
As well there are five or six extra border dots in that area on the top coin which seem to be original and not added to the mold.

Ross G.

Offline Ron C2

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2021, 05:03:40 pm »
Did you get both coins from the same source? If yes, then that person may be on the shady side.
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Offline Kevin D

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2021, 09:36:00 pm »
Not that anyone doubts your judgement tsibi, but how are you 100% certain your coin is not also a fake of some sort?

At the very least, your coin has been through one of the fakery schools, which is enough to cast doubt on it.

Have you had it under a microscope yet?

My coin was hammered, it is not a cast. The fake coin is a high precision cast.
OK, I will make close-up photos about this coin too, but I must get it from bank tresor first, and this is not a simple procedure.  :)

If I understand correctly, Tibsi has not had the top coin in hand, but rather only the seller's photos of it.

My thoughts are the same as Ron's, in that when I see two coins like this that are identical, I become suspicious of both coins and I don't assume one is the authentic mother.

If the top coin was created from just a photo of Tibsi's coin, then I would wonder about 3D printing. I don't have much knowledge about this, but from what I've been reading, 3D 'models' (i.e. molds and dies) can be created from a 2D photograph. However, I don't know that they are yet capable of duplicating coin detail to this degree with this technique.

Offline antoninus1

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2021, 03:47:07 am »
To me the style of the portrait looks strange. Can we be sure that it´s ancient?

Offline maridvnvm

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2021, 05:42:29 am »
The style is that of the Antioch mint.

Offline paps

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2021, 06:53:23 pm »
Unfortunately, I know the feeling. I had a coin posted here on the fake forum, I was sure was genuine. I even wanted to believe it may have been the mother, but as in your case, both coins look exactly alike which casts doubts on both coins. Also, how do we know these were cast and not pressed? They don't appear to be obvious casts, at least from the images.


Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2021, 01:13:09 pm »
Unfortunately, I know the feeling. I had a coin posted here on the fake forum, I was sure was genuine. I even wanted to believe it may have been the mother, but as in your case, both coins look exactly alike which casts doubts on both coins. Also, how do we know these were cast and not pressed? They don't appear to be obvious casts, at least from the images.

Pressing does not result in identical flans and centering and these are identical enough to rule that out. At least one is cast
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Offline paps

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #15 on: December 30, 2021, 04:39:14 pm »
Quote
Pressing does not result in identical flans and centering ...
- thanks Joe - I didn't realize that, glad I posted.

Offline Tibsi

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2022, 02:51:34 am »
The bulgarian fake coin has arrived. Here is the photo. Mine is left, fake is right.
The fake coin is a very poor copy, it's material is maybe alpacca. My coin's material is good silver.
By some collectors the mine coin is fake too. I bought it from Emporium Hamburg.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2022, 07:09:19 am »
By some collectors the mine coin is fake too.

What says Din X? He knows a lot about transferring dies, making casts from them etc.
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Offline Ron C2

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2022, 08:02:20 am »
Unfortunately, you will likely never know if your coin is a real ancient, a modern struck coin, or some other type of fake, because previous owners have ruined whatever the mother coin was by producing close copies. Even a bad copy makes your more presentable example suspect.
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Offline Tibsi

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2022, 09:18:25 am »
Who is Din X? Where can I find it?

By some collectors the mine coin is fake too.

What says Din X? He knows a lot about transferring dies, making casts from them etc.

Offline Lech Stępniewski

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2022, 10:33:31 am »
Who is Din X? Where can I find it?

You can find him on this very forum. Maybe he didn't notice this thread so you could send him PM.
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Offline Joe Sermarini

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Re: New cast fake from seller numis-gallery - terrible
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2022, 08:36:07 pm »
The most dangerous fakes are well made casts like this one. They often are only caught by duplicates.
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