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Author Topic: Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia  (Read 146953 times)

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kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #50 on: September 08, 2008, 07:35:15 pm »
Here's another:

Marcus Aurelius
AE15 (2.5g)
Obv: MAVANTΩNINOCKAIC - Bust right
Rev: NIK-AI-EΩN - Torch with snake entwined

RG records a similar issue for Geta (p.462, 506)


Joe W.

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #51 on: September 08, 2008, 11:54:06 pm »
Definitely not in Isegrim (or indeed RPC), but this to my eye this portrait looks more like Caracalla, as does the single Isegrim entry (RG 415, 129) with the same obverse legend as your coin:
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3022.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3184.html
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kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #52 on: September 09, 2008, 01:20:15 am »
Definitely not in Isegrim (or indeed RSC), but this to my eye this portrait looks more like Caracalla, as does the one Isegrim entry with the same obverse legend, RG 415, 129:
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3022.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3184.html

The RG 415, 129 looks a bit "older" to me...but it may just be the poor quality of my copy.

Here is another youthful M. Aurelius apparently with the same obverse legend...

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=89992&AucID=96&Lot=307

Joe W.

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #53 on: September 09, 2008, 07:58:58 am »
Thank you, Joe; it is useful to have a clearer instance of that RG type; but it still doesn't look much like most of the young MA portraits I've seen (often with a discreetly receding chin; see

http://www.coinarchives.com/a/results.php?results=1000&search=marcus%20aurelius+and+caesar+not+denarius+not+aureus+not+dupondius+not+sester+not+drachm+not+faustina

and

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=44745.msg280540#msg280540).
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #54 on: September 09, 2008, 09:35:49 am »
Thank you, Joe; it is useful to have a clearer instance of that RG type; but it still doesn't look much like most of the young MA portraits I've seen.

I have to confess that I haven't seen many young MA portraits, so perhaps that's why these look OK to me...:)


Here's another apparently unlisted to start the day:

Septimius Severus
AE17 (2.3g)
Obv: AVKΛCΕΠCEVHPOC - Bust right
Rev: ΝΙΚΑΙΕΩΝ - Tetrastyle temple with dots within

I have found similar coins for Julia Domna, Geta & Caracalla...but nothing in ISEGRIM for SS.

Joe W.

kerux

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2008, 10:09:06 am »
Another not in Isegrim:

Severus Alexander
AE20 (4.3g)
Obv: MAVPCEYAΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟCΑ - Bust right
Rev: ΔΙΟC/ΛΙΤΑΙ/ΟΥ; NIKAIEΩΝ - Lit altar with inscription (DIOC/LITAI/OV); legend NIKAIEWN around

This coin is apparently a variant of RG 477, 615. What makes it different (hard to see in pic) is that the reverse legend (except NIKAIEWN) is entirely within the altar...nothing in the exergue as in the RG specimen. Don't know if this is significant enough difference for this list, but here it is.

Joe W.

 

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2008, 11:57:16 am »
Thanks, Joe; what's distinctive in your second posting is quite a big difference, as witness RG's specimen (picture Pl. lxxxiii.7):

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3198.html
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2008, 04:35:34 pm »
Julia Mamaea, Pan/Satyr on rev, 24x26mm, 9.32g. Recently found online (not mine!). Offered as unpublished.

Best regards

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2008, 05:41:11 pm »
A highly interesting rev. legend, EVCEBWN EVGENWN NIKAIEWN, "(a coin) of the pious, well-born people of Nicaea", otherwise only recorded within a laurel wreath on an AE 26 of Sev. Alex., RG 621!
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2008, 11:08:23 pm »
Thanks to both; very interesting!  For the record, here's that coin's current listing:

http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/beastcoins/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=8274.

This unpublished Nicaean joins the company of several small Pans from the family of Septimius Severus

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=36177.msg229228

and large-module depictions of Pan with a wine-skin, some published and probably some not; see for instance

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3025.html, http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3025.html, and the pictures at
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3185.html.

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #60 on: September 17, 2008, 12:57:14 am »
I have posted this on another thread, but the availability of RG online allows me to post this one is where it really belongs.

Gordian III AE 32 Nicaea 18.34g.  RG-; Weiser-; SNG Cop-

Obv. MA_NT GO_PDIANOC [AVG] (Obv. as RG 710)

RX. NI_K_A_I_E/WN (Rv. as RG 700)

George Spradling
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Offline archivum

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #61 on: September 17, 2008, 07:52:03 am »
Thank you, George; a remarkable specimen!  RG pictures the obverse of RG 710 (AE30), from the same obverse die as your specimen, but the obverse of RG 700 (AE33) receives only this shakier description: "Buste a gauche radie (?), avec la lance et le bouclier."  Any chance that that's just the same die, incompletely described?  Anyway, thanks for posting!  archivum

http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3094.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3095.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3199.html
http://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/RG/RG1-3200.html

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Offline gordian_guy

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #62 on: September 17, 2008, 09:36:18 am »


George, what a beautiful example of this wonderful coin. Here is my very rough example. So far yours and mine are the only two of these that I have seen in person, so to say!!

thanks..

c.rhodes

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #63 on: September 17, 2008, 04:12:22 pm »
Thank you both!  The verbal descriptions given in RG do not inspire a lot of confidence in me that two different variants are being distinguished, although the compiler had the advantage of having the coins in hand when he did so.  Charlie, if one of our coins is female perhaps we  could breed them and restore the species!  George S.
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #64 on: September 17, 2008, 05:53:54 pm »


George, archivum:

Just look at my coin and tell me that you know that there is a Medusa on the shield. I suspect that the example that Waddington et al had was in very poor shape - look at #706, it is the same die - no mention of the medusa - they could tell it is radiate, as you can on mine. So, I suspect it was just the state of the coins that limited the description and probably that is okay, as they described what they saw - maybe a mention of the medusa(?) would have been warranted. Look at the reverses of 698 and 700, plate LXXXIV 33 and 34 - how remarkable those two coins look except for the eros on 700 and the ? on 698. I think that 698 is the same reverse as 700 just doodled a bit???

c.rhodes

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #65 on: September 17, 2008, 06:27:26 pm »
706 bis is described as "laure," not radiate, is it not?  This distinction would survive a lot of wear.  As to the Medusa on the shield on your coin, I can't swear one way or another: sometimes I think I see faint traces of it, sometimes not.  I agree that the reverses of 700 and 698 may very well be the same.  George S.
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #66 on: September 17, 2008, 06:39:54 pm »


Indeed it is, but here is my point, they are quite confident that it is laureate and yet not so confident that 700 is radiate and like you I think that the radiate types should be obvious. Likewise I suspect that a medusa head in on the shield of 706, so they are reporting what they see, or think they see, not what is actually there. I would like it if someone has a nice example of 706 to show; the dies looks very close to 710 LXXXV, 3 and besides I would like to have an example of the 706 reverse (I am tired of just accumulating the standards types - they are like collecting pennies by date and mint!!)

Thanks

c.rhodes

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #67 on: September 17, 2008, 06:50:37 pm »
I would love a nice example of 706!!  But if one came up, you would outbid me in a heartbeat (especially now that the second mortgage market has dried up!).  George S.
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #68 on: October 09, 2008, 06:21:43 am »
SSevNikAth.jpg:
Nikaia in Bithynia, Septimius Severus, 193-211 AD.,
Orichalcum Hemiassarion (16-17 mm / 3,58 g),
Obv.: CЄΠ CЄVH-POC AVΓ , laureate head of Septimius Severus right.
Rev.: NIKA - IEΩN , Athena standing l., holding patera and leaning on spear, shield at her feet l.
cf. Rec. Gen. 439, 326 (bigger denomination) ; Weiser - ;


cf. Münzen & Medaillen Deutschland GmbH, Auction 15, 330 (ex. J.-P. Righetti coll.)
00330q00.jpg:
http://www.coinarchives.com/a/lotviewer.php?LotID=90015&AucID=96&Lot=330 (probably same dies) .


regards

ps:
The coins are always greener on the auction house side/site.  ;)

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #69 on: October 09, 2008, 08:18:34 am »
Thanks for posting this one; very interesting small portrait of Severus -- these are some of the quirkiest in the series -- other variants at

https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=49390.msg307614#msg307614
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #70 on: October 12, 2008, 07:00:53 pm »
Severus Alexander as Caesar, AE 21-22, 6.16g.

M AVP ALEXANDPOC KAI, bare-headed, draped, cuirassed bust r.

NIKAI - EWN, draped figure standing l., holding patera (?) upwards and long scepter.

Same obv. die as RG 578, pl. 82.8, there with rev. Nemesis standing l.

Rev. could be Hera, if her attributes are really patera and scepter.

RG 531 pl. 82.19, Sev. Alex. as Augustus, has a similar figure, definitely holding up a patera or bowl, and calls it "Dionysos holding patera and thyrsus."

RG 600 pl. 82.27, Sev. Alex. as Augustus, similar figure with crown of towers, holding patera horizontally before her not upwards, in l. hand apparently a thyrsos with protrusions at both ends, called "Nicaea".
Curtis Clay

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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #71 on: October 12, 2008, 07:13:56 pm »
Now that's a nice specimen; I suppose it could also be Demeter, but the attributes are often ambiguous even on a sharp specimen (witness Isegrim's entry * for SNG AUL 612, 7.96g, Sev. Alex. as Augustus).

   *RA: CORN-EARS(1) / WREATH CORN-EARS <?> / TORCH(1)
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #72 on: October 12, 2008, 07:36:12 pm »
Demeter seems unlikely, because the attribute in r. hand doesn't look at all like wheat ears; the scepter seems to be thin and plain, not thicker and stepped like a torch; and finally she's almost certainly unveiled, while Demeter is usually veiled.
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #73 on: October 12, 2008, 11:23:55 pm »
I agree that Demeter is generally veiled, but not always; and though what we see here doesn't look a whole lot like a torch, it's not rare for the top of the torch to be blurred at the top of the flan.  Perhaps von Aulock's specimen was just enough like a Demeter to get described thus in the catalogue; I will have a look anyway.

Veils apparently optional in the Balkans at least:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=28962.msg187697#msg187697
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Nicaean Addenda: Scarcer Finds from Nikaia, Bithynia
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2008, 10:54:40 am »
The von Aulock reverse does appear to be veiled, though it isn't that clear; the torch-top isn't either, though the corn-ears are definitely more plausible.
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

 

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