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Author Topic: Fake Hannibaliannus  (Read 10942 times)

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Offline Potator II

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Fake Hannibaliannus
« on: January 13, 2008, 07:45:49 am »
Hi all,

A few days ago, I posted in my gallery a pic of the Hannibaliannus that shows below (pic # 1)which I bought seven years ago from a reputable and reliable dealer in Paris :

AE 3 struck in Constantinople in 336 AD
FL ANNIBALLIANO REGI, Draped and cuirassed bust of Hannibalianus right
SE-CVRITAS PVBLICA, Euphrate lying left, leaning on a scepter. CONS at exergue
2.46 gr
Ref : RIC # 145 (R4), Cohen # 2, RC # 3935, LRBC # 1035, CGB monnaies IX # 652

Lars, with his eagle eye and elephant memory, recognized it as a possible die match to an other one in the fake reports gallery (pic # 2). The pic is not that good, but I must admit Lars arguments are convincing (Gasp and sigh !!!  >:( )

The question is : are we sure enough the coin in the fake report gallery is fake, that I could go to the dealer with enough evidence to ask for a refund (as the coin is unconditionally guaranteed). i wouldn't want the dealer to laugh at me just saying : "opinions from forum members are just what they are, and my coin is genuine, punct"

Thanks for any advice or published reference

Best regards
Potator

Offline Pscipio

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2008, 10:14:46 am »
In my opinion, these are modern engraved dies, and not taken from original coins. They look similar to the Magnentius, Vetranio, Flacilla, Eudoxia and Flavius Victor fakes showing up during the last two years, some even making it into well known auctions. I attached three die matching fakes of Flavius Victor looking quite similar to your Hannibalian.
Leu Numismatik
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Offline Pscipio

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2008, 10:16:14 am »
The third is from a reliable auction house, but was withdrawn prior to the auction. And No. 4., a similarly looking Aelia Flacilla from Forvm's fake reports.

Lars
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Offline Ilya Prokopov

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 12:28:08 pm »
I have certain remarks about the style, inscriptions and portrait of this coin, but most of all I would like to point your attention to the following details:
- the coin core is old and original (authentic);
- the corrosion as well as traces from patina and mechanical accumulation outside the border dots strongly contrast with the "fresh" surface in the low relief inside the border dots;
- the high areas of the image and letters have traces of old corrosion;
- the cracks on the core are old and the striking was made after they have already existed;
- the control mark on the reverse comes from a sooner metal strain and besides the pellets circle was made by a machine;
- there is an old patina which is deformed and pressed to the image.

There are more strange things, but I think this is enough.
Personally for me this coin is not in order.
Ilya Prokopov
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Offline Potator II

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 01:19:02 pm »
Currently on eBay.

Thanks roek for the info.

Here it is (I pasted the two pics)

Offline Pscipio

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 01:22:01 pm »
Same modern dies, no doubt.

Lars
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Offline Bacchus

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2008, 01:30:17 pm »
And there seems to be another of those Aelia Flacilla's on the German site No. 140198551015.

Malcolm

Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2008, 12:08:16 am »
Yes, modern dies and part of the large series of Late Roman AE's I've written about many times in the past.

Barry Murphy

Offline Potator II

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2008, 06:34:14 am »
Hi Barry

Many thanks. I imagine it closes the case. I'm now going to ask the seller for a refund.

Regards
Potator

Offline bpmurphy

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus ?
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 04:32:07 pm »
Vetranio is fake also. Here's the composite image I did around 2 years ago.

http://bpmurphy.ancients.info/images/misc/fakeaes.jpg

Barry

Offline Potator II

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2008, 08:31:03 am »
Hi all,

I have sent the coin in question to the seller, who admitted easily it is fake after reading this thread and gave me a full refund. Thanks to him. It's good to know we can rely on serious dealers....

Many thanks to those who helped me finding references about this fakery.

Regards
Potator


PS : coin submitted to the fake reports

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2008, 10:26:03 pm »
Here's another from same dies just listed on eBay.

Ben

Offline Potator II

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2008, 05:03:51 pm »
Thanks for posting it Congius.

Although they are from same dies and probably because I'm now familiar with those fakes, I find this one less convincing than the one I bought
 
Regards
Potator


Offline snorkelpaleis

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2008, 05:22:04 pm »
did someone notify the seller?
Carpe narem

Offline Heliodromus

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2008, 09:06:44 pm »
Yes, I've informed the seller, and pointed him to this thread.

Ben

Offline Potator II

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2009, 04:26:08 pm »
I eventually found a new specimen struck (cast) with the same dies as the example at the begining of this post, sold by a famous seller in Paris, on his website. I informed the seller of a problem with the coin and pointed him to this thread. He told me he had bought it from a high end collector. The coin has been withdrawn from the website by the dealer, showing his professionnalism.

Potator

Offline Flav V

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2020, 06:31:36 am »
How many coins with this or these dies were sold by sale houses? I post those two coins:

https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=3462545
https://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1873326


Offline Anaximander

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2020, 02:32:03 pm »
No doubt a rhetorical question, Flav V, but evidence suggests that there is at least a fair handful of modern forgeries of the Hanniballianus.  I'm pleased to see that in one of the links you just cited that there was an apt condemnation comment left with a link to a Forvm Fake Coin Report.  

Your posting raised my awareness of this topic, of which I was unfamiliar.  I just posted my own Hanniballianus coin of the same type in a personal gallery and reviewed the thread with great interest.  Mine has different dies, as well as coming from a reputable dealer, and I still judge it to be authentic.

I also compared some of the fakes of Vetranio and Aelia Flaccilla cited in the thread to my own. An educational, if somewhat scary, exercise.  



Chris “Anaximander” Thomsen. Member Since 2019.
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Offline Flav V

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Re: Fake Hannibaliannus
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2020, 02:05:33 am »
Yes, a lot of modern forgeries... still sold actually.

 

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