How about this oil lamp? is it from the Roman Period

[epmunt]

Ancient oil lamp from the Roman Period (37 BC– 324 AD). Length: 8.2 cm.

Gladiator with tiger.

[Retrospectator]

I think that these voluted triangular nozzle type oil lamps date around 1st - 2nd century A.D. Very likely to have been made in Italy. My two pence.

[frederic]

Hi, Your oil lamp is effectively a type voluted triangular nozzle dated to the begining of Empire. Dressel and Loeschck have divided this type in 3 groups: A, B and C. Each group have different type of volute and beak. Your oil lamp is a type C. Loeschck have dated type A from Augustus reign, type B from Tiberius and Claudius reign and type C from Nero reign to begining Flavii reign.
Deneauve have make too a classification for this type of oil lamp but I don't have any information about his work.

ref: Benedicte Robin Petitot. Catalogue des lampes grecques et romaines. Les collections du musée de l'Arles antiques.

Your oil amp is superb, congratulations
Best Regards

Frederic

[Strobilus]

I'm afraid that your lamp is a modern reproduction made in Bulgaria. These are commonly artificially aged (often extremely convincingly) to pass them off as originals.

The clay and simulated slip are typical of the type and the raised lip on the end of the nozzle is also a common feature. Other examples from the series are included here (FB7 is similar to yours and almost certainly from the same patrix):
http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/fakes/fakes1.shtml

The image is not a "Gladiator with tiger". The originals on which your lamp is loosely based featured an image of a hunter with spear (Meleager?) running left, accompanied by a hound. These date from the second half of the 1st century AD. A poor provincial example (Cypriot) is shown here: http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/database/lamp.php?171

[epmunt]

Thanks a lot, it looks not old to me too. That's why I asked.
It seems the reddish colour was painted outside, insde is a little bit white caly. Is that normal? Does a real lamp painted?
By the way how about the market price for this kind of lamp? if there's a real one exists? I think the price is also an indication of real or not.


I did some reading. Now I understand, the reddish painting should be slip:
"The vast majority of ancient pottery is coated with slip, fine watery clay that produces a glossy surface when fired. The use of slip is in fact more for practical reasons than it is for aesthetic.  Despite the decorative results, its primary function is to seal the vessels’ surfaces and make them less permeable to their contents. Slips should not be confused with glaze, which involves a chemical process that results in a vitreous or glass-like appearance after firing.  Such exteriors are rare in ancient pottery.
   
The colour of pottery is also affected by the method in which it is fired; as the iron oxide content in clay will react to the amount of oxygen inside the kiln. For example, by firing in an oxidizing or smoke free atmosphere the iron content will produce a red surface, while a reducing, or smoky atmosphere will produce a black finish.  The reduction technique required a damp fuel source and a sealed kiln to contain the smoke, which would turn both the slipped and bare areas black or gray. Romans however, generally preferred shiny red pottery and therefore relied mostly on the oxidizing technique. "

another one from the same seller:

[epmunt]

Hi David,

How about this:

ATTRACTIVE SWAN KYLIX, APULIAN, 4th ctry. B.C. Intact with no restorations.

Swan surrounded by olive branch.

Diam. across handles, 23.5 cm. - Height 5.5 cm

Is this a good one?

From the same dealer. Dangerous too?

[Strobilus]

It seems the reddish colour was painted outside, insde is a little bit white caly. Is that normal? Does a real lamp paint?

It is normal (though not invariable) for both authentic Loeschcke Type I lamps and these Bulgarian copies to have a coloured (typically reddish-brown) coating on the exterior. In authentic lamps the coating is a 'slip', created by brushing on or dipping into a thin wash of fine clay. This method appears to have been occasionally used for the fakes too but very often the wash is merely an artificial paint.

In authentic lamps the clay used for the core and the slip varied from region to region (providing a useful way of identifying unprovenanced lamps - though this has not yet been fully analysed) and sometimes from maker to maker.

Both real lamps and the copies very often have a whitish coating or 'encrustation' inside. In authentic lamps this coating is typically caused by calcite deposits or catalytic processes in the soil. I suspect that in the fakes this internal coating is induced and accelerated by swilling the lamp with thin muddy water or chemicals (perhaps mixed with adhesive), then burying the lamp in soil for a few months and letting nature take its course. It is amazing how fast a genuine coating can form under burial.

There is a small selection of authentic Loeschcke Type I lamps here which may help you to familiarise yourself with what the real thing looks like:
http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/lampcat/lampcat2.shtml

By the way how about the market price for this kind of lamp? if there's a real one exists? and what is the price of repro?

Prices vary enormously. Authentic lamps of this type can be very reasonably priced and it is ironic that the fakes often fetch higher prices than the real thing on venues such as eBay because people think they must be getting a bargain.


---------------------------------------------

Regarding the kylix: I specialise in lamps and cannot comment meaningfully on objects outside my area of expertise - except to warn that Apulian pottery has been notoriously faked for many years and a great deal of this stuff seems to be coming out of the Netherlands at present.

These pages may be of interest:

http://www.collector-antiquities.com/152/
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/178/
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/198/

I would just say that I am particularly suspicious of your kylix.

[Strobilus]

I see you have edited and added to your post #4 since I posted my reply.

The new lamp you added is another Bulgarian fake. Apart from other incongruities, beware of Loeschcke Type I lamps with a raised lip at the end of the nozzle.

Your quote about slip is an excellent summary. I would just add that a grey or black colour could be deliberate but was also sometimes the result of an accident in kiln firing (as probably happened here http://www.romulus2.com/lamps/database/lamp.php?32 ) or a later fire (as here http://www.britishmuseum.org/explore/highlights/highlight_objects/pe_prb/p/pottery_oil-lamp.aspx ).

I think the price is also an indication of real or not.

Not necessarily. The dealer himself may be fooled.

[epmunt]

This is only for the nozzle shape comparison. As you mentioned the shapes were different.

[epmunt]

Hi David,

Thanks for your help. I am a coin collector. Comparing to coins, the ceramics are so difficult to identify.

I wonder those daily used stuff, how could they use same type of moulds? Keep in similar shape..

I just made large pictures, please look the details.

[epmunt]

kylix more pictures

[epmunt]

more

[Strobilus]

I am a coin collector. Comparing to coins, the ceramics are so difficult to identify.

It depends on what you specialise in. I find ceramic lamps easy but I would be hopeless with coins.

I wonder those daily used stuff, how could they use same type of moulds? Keep in similar shape..

It didn't matter if moulds wore out. It was the patrix (archetype) that was important. With the patrix they could make as many moulds from it as they liked for as long as they liked. Most Roman lamp moulds were made of plaster and easily replaced.

Making a Mouldmade Lamp:
http://www.romulus2.com/henjack/article.php?4&Making_a_Mouldmade_Lamp

I just made large pictures, please look the details.

The details confirm my previous comments.

[Joe Sermarini]

Unless it is directly related to the item under discussion, please use a whole new thread when posting another lamp or item.  The kylix doesn't fit this thread and belongs in a thread of its own.   So far the kylix hasn't really been discussed but when it is, two conversations going on at the same time in the same thread can get very confusing.