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Author Topic: The adventures of Herakles thread  (Read 21143 times)

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Offline slokind

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2008, 07:17:44 pm »
Well, yes, floodgates.  Advertise a lecture on Herakles, and you fill the auditorium.
(a) Sebastopolis-Hadrianopolis: a perfect typological parallel for my favorite Herakes coin.
(b) Herakles riding a feline as if he were a Scythian on horseback (facing the rear) and dandling a baby: it's britannicus you want to ask (Francis Jarman).
(c) from the sublime (a) to the ridiculous: a quasi-autonomouss Hadrianopolis and an inimitable Dionysopolis.
Pat L. (I'll be back with basic IDs)
top:
• 17 01 03 AE 26 Marcianopolis, issued by Pontianus.  Macrinus, laureate, head to r. facing Diadoumenian, bareheaded, head to l.  AV[T K OPEL SEV   MAKREIN]OS K M OPEL ANTONEINOS.  Heads as on no. 748 (which has stacked legend in obv. exergue, however).  Rev., Bearded Herakles, frontal, head to r., his right hand resting on his club (but so large and odd that Pick marks it ?), with the lion skin over his left arm, its tail hanging down to his feet.  VP PONTIANOV MAR  KIANOPOLEITON; the OV and the AR ligatures.  In the field at r. E.  Pick, AMNG I, 1, p. 243, no. 752, known to him only from the Sophia example, which does not preserve Pontianus's name and therefore not the ligate ending.  The head of Macrinus extremely refined.
middle:
• 01 11 02 AE 19  3.9g  Hadrianopolis.  Autonomous.  Head of Lysippic Weary Herakles to l.  Rev., Quite recognizable, the Weary Herakles, with his club and lion skin, to r.  ADRIANO[POLEI]TONCf. the simpler Sear GIC 4832 and SNG Cop 2, 556, where the time of Commodus is (inevitably) suggested, but as B. V. Head, HN, says, p. 287, "Types often referring to the labours of Herakles".
bottom:
• 10 10 01 AE1Moesia Inferior, Dionysopolis.   Commodus, laureate head r.  M AVT KAI M A[VRE      --]MODOS.  Cf. Pick AMNG I, 1, p. 132, no. 374, an AE 23 with the same kind of legend starting at 1:00 o'clock.  That coin has a Beta in the reverse fieldRev., Herakles with his club in his r. and his lion skin over his l. forearm; the legend again begins at 1:00 o'clock: DIONYSO  P      OLEITON (ending at 11:00 o'clock) and, retrograde, in the field at left Beta.  So at this city, at this date, about 19mm is two assaria.  Sold as "Marcus Aurelius", but parts of the key letters of Commodus can be made out at left, and Marcus Aurelius had no issues at Dionysopolis.

Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2008, 08:24:36 pm »
It has resisted all my efforts to scan it (looks like a big oreo cookie despite being in wonderful condition), but there is a very elegant Commodus/Herakles and club in the same pose at Pat's Pontianus, from Saitta, AE34.  For those who can look it up, see BMC Lydia, p. 218, 38 (same dies).  Very elegant, worth the trip (if the BMC coin is as nice).  Gotta remedy this situation! George S.
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Offline Britannicus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2008, 06:05:17 pm »
(b) Herakles riding a feline as if he were a Scythian on horseback (facing the rear) and dandling a baby: it's britannicus you want to ask (Francis Jarman).
I know this type from Nicaea, Serdica and Ancyra (Galatia). On all the coins I've seen (or seen images of) Eros's wings are reasonably clear. There are several other coin types which tie in Eros with Heracles (although he's also to be seen with Dionysus). Check out our Eros webpage here on FORVM in the near future for more infos!
Francis

Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2008, 07:16:16 pm »
Thank you, Britannicus.  I have, or have seen, examples from Nicaea (see above post), Deultum, and Ankyra in Galatia.  Never Serdica (a new obsession is born).  I look forward to your Eros page additions!  Since I only have a couple or three more coins relevant here because of unusual Herakles depictions or rarity (with images), as opposed to the standard depictions, I thought I would add one more of Hercules trying on a new hat:

Gordian III, AE24 Deultum Thrace, 8.17g, Youroukova, Deultum 335, Varbanov 2262; Dragannov 1048-1052 (O121/R582)

IMP GORDIANVS PIVS FEL AVG
Draped and cuirassed bust right

COL FL P_AC DEVLT
Hercules standing facing, head right, holding club and lion's skin, crowning himself with wreath

Thanks for your indulgence!  George S.
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Offline Bacchus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2008, 02:59:17 am »
There is great detail on that last lionskin - a really nice coin.  I have found that Deultum has issued coins  of surprising fineness and beauty among the usual more run of the mill examples.  All the more amazing considering the flans were generally smaller than most mints produced.

Malcolm

Offline slokind

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2008, 03:37:57 am »
Two of the basic Labors, the Nemean Lion and the Lernean Hydra; the latter headed this thread.  Of course, I put it to you, whatever Septimius and Caracalla had, Macrinus and Diadumenian needed to have, too.
Anyhow, among my Tertullus images, I have the lion (my own) and the hydra (image sent by a friend), and here they are.
The Caracalla is, IMO, his finest die.
Pat L.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2008, 07:21:53 am »
This one is a bit rough but it is interesting in that the same obverse die as used with the first post of the thread

It would be nice to consider that this type and the Hydra type were issued contemporaneously, and indeed they probably were - but this can't be definite.  There are other Herakles reverses of this ruler and mint that don;t seem to share this obverse die - though I am actively looking for them.

Province  Moesia Inferior
City  Nicopolis ad Istrum
Size (mm)  25
Weight (g)  9.80
Die Axis  180
Tariff  4 assaria
Governor  Statius Longinus
Ob. Leg.  M OPELLI DIADOV-MENIANOC KAI
Ob. Desc.  Bare headed bust to right with cloak and armour – seen from behind
Rev. Leg.  VP CTA LONGINOV NIKOPOËITWN PROC IC
Rev. Desc.  Herakles to right leaning on club, right hand behind back (Lysippos's Weary Herakles )
References; AMNG I 1857 p. 470 and Varbanov I, no. 2699

Offline archivum

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2008, 03:39:06 am »
It is interesting just how much the legends of Herakles have invaded other aspects of the ancient world.

Take this example of Herakles / Melquart - From Tyre

Province  Phoenicia
City  Tyre
Size (mm)  21
Weight (g)  8.98
Die Axis  0
Ob. Leg.  M OP[EL] ANTWNINON KAI
Ob. Desc.  Bare headed, draped and cuirassed bust right
Rev. Leg.  [ ]TVRVS METRV [COL]
Rev. Desc.  Laureate head of Hercules/Melquart right 
References; Lindgren III A1469a;

Heracles - Melquart (King of the City) was a favorite god of the Phoenicians  (particually Tyre). Legend has it that Herakles discovered the purple dye so vital to the Phoenician economy - think Roman togas.

The myth is that Heracles was walking on the beach in Tyre one day, when his dog bit into the shell of a Murex, which stained his pets nose with the distinctive purple. With a high business acumen this then kick-started the industry in the area.

It seems that a high number of cities have honoured Herakles in some way.  - A map of these would be interesting.

Malcolm

Offline Britannicus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2008, 07:14:12 pm »
Thank you, Britannicus.  I have, or have seen, examples from Nicaea (see above post), Deultum, and Ankyra in Galatia.  Never Serdica (a new obsession is born).  I look forward to your Eros page additions
Hallo George, help needed! Have you seen any Heracles-on-a-lion coins from Deultum where he is holding an Eros figure? I've seen Heracles-without-Eros coins of Maximinus and Gordian III from Deultum, but never one where he is with Eros.
Francis

Offline wandigeaux (1940 - 2010)

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2008, 08:12:02 pm »
No, sorry for the confusion: I posted the Deultum coin as an example of the type WITHOUT the eros.  The status quo still stands.  George S.
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Offline Britannicus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2008, 05:37:07 am »
Thanks, George. And please let me know if you spot any Erotes that we might not be aware of - the little guy has a habit of popping up when you least expect him, both in life and on provincial coin reverses!   ;)

Francis

Offline Britannicus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2010, 11:04:24 am »
Because they're so scarce, here's another Heracles-and-Eros-on-a-lion from Nicaea (of Faustina the Younger), though not as smart as the Wandigeaux Gordian III.
Supplementing what I wrote above, at Nicaea I know of coins of this type associated with
FAUSTINA II – 5 (RPC IV, 5530 provisional: 1 in London; 2 in Paris; 1 in Naples; plus my own coin, AE 28, 7 h, 11.35 g)  
CARACALLA – 2 (SNG v.Aulock 591; Wadd RG p.455 no.452 = Imhoof-Blumer)
MACRINUS – 5 (Wadd RG p.468 no.546 in Paris, St. Petersburg, Vienna & Berlin)
GORDIAN III – 4 (Wadd RG p.487 no.700 in Turin & Paris; 1 in CoinArchives; George's coin)
They're not at all common.

Francis

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2010, 11:29:10 am »
I like that type. Here's a specimen from Serdica that had been consigned to us some while ago. Repatinated and some smoothing, but still a nice coin.

27-29 mm, 17.18 g
Ruzicka 275

Click to zoom.

Lars
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Offline Britannicus

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2010, 12:02:56 pm »
What a marvellous coin! It's probably Varbanov 2356 (I think Mr. V. has misread the obverse legend on the coin that he illustrates).
Heracles has obviously got his hands very full with Eros - no relaxed "playing" here!

Francis

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2010, 01:04:41 pm »
Beautiful indeed! Here I have a coin with the Cretan Bull from Nikopolis showing a nice and rare feature: the bow in the ex. below the legend.

AMNG I/1, 1309, pl. XVII, 24 (same rev. die); Varbanov (engl.) 2720 corr. (cites AMNG 1309, but doesn't mention club and bow); Voegtli Typ 4m; Stoll, Herakles 39 (same dies)

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Offline archivum

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2010, 02:27:09 pm »

This one, a Caracalla AE30 from Heracleia Pontica in Bithynia, has a club and a bow in the exergue, though the bow is considerably clearer on the RG specimen (366.133, only specimen in Isegrim):
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2010, 02:30:07 pm »

-- And to carry the running of the Cretan bulls just a bit further, here's an uncommon Gordian III AE33 from Hadrianopolis, Thrace, Varbanov (Eng.) 3802 (smaller issues 3705 and 3803 seem to have bow and quiver in the exergue):
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2010, 04:59:03 pm »
Another coin showing Herkles holding his son Telephos.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2010, 05:20:36 pm »
Interesting, and an excellent specimen for such a rare Serdican issue (Varbanov calls the child Dionysos, but I think that you're right, as with this Cotiaeum issue: *).  Here is one other Herakles with Telephos (clearly not the best photo**!):

Maximinus I AE36, Tarsus, Cilicia, Rad. hd. r. / Herakles standing r. holding his son Telephos, stag before (SNG Lewis 1747 and Fitzwilliam 5336 etc.):

   * https://www.forumancientcoins.com/board/index.php?topic=48449.msg302616#msg302616

   ** Other specimens pictured at http://www.s110120695.websitehome.co.uk/SNG/sng_reply2a.php?verb=SNGuk_0407_5336 and http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/maximinus_I/_tarsos_AE37_SNGCop_377.jpg / .txt
                         
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2010, 05:27:01 pm »

And here's clearly a hydra to reckon with:

Elagabalus, AE32, Sagalassus, Pisidia, Laur. hd. r. / Herakles standing r. clubbing hydra, 1 specimen in Isegrim (SNG v. Aulock 5178):
Temper thy haste with sloth -- Taverner / Erasmus.

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2010, 06:56:51 am »
Here I have another Hydra from Hadrianopolis. It differs from the others by the quiverand bow behind.

Thrace, Hadrianopolis, pseudo-autonomous
AE 19
obv. TON KTI - CTHN
bearded head of Herakles, r.
rev. ADRIANO - POLEITW[N]
Herakles, nude, stg. l., has catched the Lernean Hydra with l. hand and swings his club with r. hand aloft
to smash the Hydra.; r. behind his quiver and bow.
ref. Mionnet Suppl. II, 604
very rare, about VF, green patina

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2010, 07:06:57 am »
CRETE. Faistos. Ca. 320–300 BC. AR stater
Herakles fighting Hydra/Cretan bull

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Re: The adventures of Herakles thread
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2010, 07:10:16 am »
Oh sorry! Just now i saw that this thread is for Roman coins  :-[
Please delete.

 

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