Carus

[Ed D]

Please your opinion about this coin and the discription.

Ed D


Apparently unique and unrecorded. Two interesting portraits. Brown tone
somewhat tooled, otherwise about extremely fine.
This quinarius offers two portraits with virtually identical facial features, yet different treatments. The emperor Carus is shown wearing consular robes and holding a Herculian club and a globe topped with Victory. His eldest son, the Caesar Carinus, does not hold a club, and instead of consular garb, wears a soldier's cuirass. The portrait of Carinus is presented exactly as we might expect, with his beard in tight curls (a defining feature of his coin portraits), yet that of Carus is shown without his trademark receding hairline, suggesting it was produced before his likeness was well known in the West.

[areich]

I don't know about 'somewhat tooled', I can't see any areas that are definitely tooled.
Perhaps this refers to the smoothing?

[curtislclay]

I wonder if the coin isn't a modern fake. Where do the image and text come from?

There is a unique gold quinarius of these types, King, Roman Quinarii 4, in Vienna ex the Trau and Montagu Collections.

The dies and style of the billon piece are notably different, however. For example on the gold quinarius the letters of the legends are considerably larger and completely fill the space between the Victory on globe at left and the club or emperor's shoulder on the right. No empty space before and after the legends.

Carinus' legend on the gold quinarius, as on the silver quinarius King 1A, is

M AVR CARINVS C.

The billon piece has the nonsensical

AVC CARINVS C.

Would an ancient engraver make such a mistake?

[leseullunique]

Origin of picture is NAC 54th auction [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]
this coin and a few others looks suspicious for me too...

[Ed D]

I also have a feeling that this coin is much younger.
The portraits are very similar,  is that the same on the golden quinar?
I wonder if Carus is bold or not?

In the 18th century in Italy we see a similar "kind of art."
Carus an Carinus are also almost look a likes and Carus isn't bold at all.

[Ardatirion]

To illustrate another questionable example

[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

compare:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0

[Numerianus]

Apparently unique and unrecorded.
 The portrait of Carinus is presented exactly as we might expect, with his beard in tight curls (a defining feature of his coin portraits), yet that of Carus is shown without his trademark receding hairline, suggesting it was produced before his likeness was well known in the West.

I have no doubts that it is modern.  Can one claim that it was produced in the nearest past? Agrguing, that in 19 centuries fakemakers were interested mainly in aurei since the gold is much easier to deal with and profits were guarnteed while  the demand for copper quinarii was low? 

[quisquam]

To illustrate another questionable example

http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&sid=215&lot=319

compare:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?album=search&cat=0&pos=0

Better Links:
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-7765
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/fakes/displayimage.php?pos=-8309

The NAC specimen seems to be the host coin.

Stefan

[Chut]

Origin of picture is NAC 54th auction [LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

this coin and a few others looks suspicious for me too...

I have the same feeling. Some coins are strange in this sale.
 

[Pscipio]

[LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN]

This one is a match to several coins in the fake reports, both solid and plated silver.

Lars

[Numerianus]

Carinus' legend on the gold quinarius, as on the silver quinarius King 1A, is

M AVR CARINVS C.

The billon piece has the nonsensical

AVC CARINVS C.

Would an ancient engraver make such a mistake?

Note that in the lot description the presumable reading is [M] AV C CARINVS C.
But if M is clogged, the legend will by ugly asymetric...
Again, "would an ancient engraver make such a mistake?"

If the suspisions for this and other coins will be justified, this must lead to a conclusion that there is a bunch
of a rather intricated fakes here...

[Ed D]

Te be continued, it has been some years ago since I posted this topic.
There has not been shown up a similar coin in all these years untill now, however it seems to be the same quinar.
The brown surface has gone the coin got another patina in only 5 years

The quinar is in a auction by the same action-house, I think this behaviour is reprehensible.

[Lacedaemon]

Te be continued, it has been some years ago since I posted this topic.
There has not been shown up a similar coin in all these years untill now, however it seems to be the same quinar.
The brown surface has gone the coin got another patina in only 5 years

The quinar is in a auction by the same action-house, I think this behaviour is reprehensible.

Is it the same coin? The Carinus side has picked up some significant surface damage. Whether it is or isn’t I think reprehensible is the right word.

[suarez]

I agree with Curtis that the AVG CARINVS C legend is a critical error. It's possible that an engraver could have goofed it but it's very doubtful given that it was a special issue which could be expected to merit extra scrutiny. It seems to be based off the Trau piece (a gold quinarius) which reads M AVR CARINVS C but is otherwise identical in design.

Ras

[Chut]

Same modern fake.

[SEstiot]

Ed,
It is a horrendum modern fake. There are quite a lot of those fake "quinarii" from the same East European fabric, which surprisingly find their way in auctions from the best known auction houses...
Ed, about your favorite emperor, do you know the recently published study : Klaus Altmayer, Die Herrschaft des Carus, Carinus und Numerianus, als Vorlaüfer der Tetrarchie, Historia Einzelschriften 230, Stuttgart (2014)?
S. Estiot

[Ed D]

Thank's  Sylviane yes I am familiar with Die Herrschaft des Carus, Carinus und Numerianus, als Vorlaüfer der Tetrarchie, my German is good enough, I'm reading it for the second time