ID help with a 9mm AE plumed helmet w\grain reverse

[casata137ec]

These little coins are beating me to death trying to ID them!

There is not much to this one (and at least I know what is represented on the obverse and reverse, unlike my last one!).

The obverse features a right facing plumed helmet (attic? corinthian?).

The reverse features an ear of grain with two leaves,  lambda to the left.

After many, many seach combos, I cannot seem to find a match...or even a starting place! Any help would be great.

Chris



9mm 0.79g

[J. B.]

Maybe there is helmeted head of Athene, not only helmet.

[casata137ec]

Maybe there is helmeted head of Athene, not only helmet.

That is a possiblility, but I have never seen her depicted with a full faced helmet and the neck piece is sorta splayed out from behind like it was sitting on the ground...would be kinda hard to tell it was her with just eye slits. (but I obviously could be wrong!)

Chris

[J. B.]

If I had to guess some city, It would have been Metapontion. There had been sruck coins with Athene and barley ear.  could mean Lucanion.
Here is one far similar:
http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=29198

I also have few coin which " are beating me to death".  At least these coins are very rare when it's impossible to identify them.

[casata137ec]

Ahhh...now I see what you are talking about! The helm could be perched on top of her head and the stuff behind it could be her hair, just struck off center. BMC Italy here I come. Thanks again Johny.

Chris

[Enodia]

i don't think it is from Metapontum. at least i have not seen this type before.

the obverse is certainly Athena in a Corinthian helmet, and this type, while not common, did occur at Metapontum (see the ex HJB specimen below).
but the reverse looks wrong to me, and not at all like the typical Metapontum ear of grain. also, almost all Metapontion coins have some version of the ethnic on the reverse (META, M-E, etc). i don't see that on your coin.

i seem to recall some Macedonian coins with the ear of grain reverse, and perhaps yours is one of those. but there again i remember those looking far more like the Lucanian type. this almost seems like a spikey leaf of some sort rather than an ear of grain, but that could be due to wear (and the fact that i just woke up    ).

curiouser and curiouser...

~ Peter

[J. B.]

And what about this coin:

http://www.asiaminorcoins.com/gallery/displayimage.php?pid=4308

I know revers is different but obvers and size approve. That's a pity that Priene doesn't begin with  .

[casata137ec]

Nothing in BMC Italy that I could find, anyway. Another puzzle...for what it's worth, here is another pic with the obverse oriented properly.

Chris

 

[casata137ec]

All right...to recap - I have a 9mm 0.79g bronze coin that I cannot figure out...I have a theory though and would like to see what you all think.

After a bit of help, it has been decided that the obverse is a right facing, helmeted Athena, somewhat off flan. No question there.

The reverse is also obvious. An ear of grain with two leaves, in left field, and POSSIBLY, a very faint in the right field.

I was thinking asia minor to begin with, and Magna Grecia was suggested, but nothing fit. I am actually now thinking it is from Thrace. Lysimacheia to be more exact. No, I have not found a match, but this coin ( http://www.acsearch.info/record.html?id=213442 ) is of similar size with this reverse (lions head obverse though). This coin [DEAD LINK REMOVED BY ADMIN] is also of similar size and has a right facing, helmeted, Athena, but the reverse is     surrounded by a grain wreath.

My thinking is (and I do not have Lindgren or SNG Cop to check it against) that this is also from Lysimacheia. Any thoughts?


Chris
 
 

[Jaimelai]

I don't see it in Lindgren, though Lindgren 874 does have a similar reverse (but the lion obverse as you have found).  Interesting coins! 

[casata137ec]

Thanks for looking Jaimelai. I really do appreciate it.

Interesting coins indeed! Some may say a big pain in the backside as well! lol I will keep looking. I bought the lot this came in at the same time I bought the lot with the Plakia coin that is also seemingly unpublished...what are the odds!

Chris

[esnible]

No match in _SNG Copenhagen_.  However, a bronze of Lysimachia (Thrace #920) matches the corn-stalk, and #921 matches the helmeted Athena.  Perhaps instead of a very rare coin you have found a mule.  Those coins are 1.02g and 1.45g.

[casata137ec]

No match in _SNG Copenhagen_.  However, a bronze of Lysimachia (Thrace #920) matches the corn-stalk, and #921 matches the helmeted Athena.  Perhaps instead of a very rare coin you have found a mule.  Those coins are 1.02g and 1.45g.

Thanks for looking it up. I can accept a mule until somthing else solid shows it's little head!

So you would call it a corn stalk instead of...say...an ear of grain?

Chris

[Dino]

I'm not sure it's a mule.  I think you were on the right track before.  No pictures for these, but here are some descriptions of other coins from Thrace from Digital Historia Numorum:

THRACIAN CHERSONESUS
Æ .45g -  Head of Athena. [Berl. Cat., I. 258.] Corn-grain.
BRONZE. Inscr. ΧΕΡ, ΧΕΡΡΟ, &c., on one or other side

Crithote, near the modern Gallipoli
Æ .8 Head of Athena. ΚΡΙ Corn-grain.

http://www.snible.org/coins/hn/thrace.html#k

So why not something similar from Lysimachia in Thrace?

It's probably just unpublished.  I've found that a lot of themes repeat themselves on coins from certain areas of Greece, so why not here.  I think it's more likely than a mule.

As an example, look at all the youth wrestling bull AR coins from all sorts of different cities in Thessaly, or the forepart of a horse coins from the same area.

I'm swamped at work right now, but I'll do a little more looking this evening.

[esnible]

I think you are right.  Here is the Berlin Catalog for a coin matching the photo:

http://books.google.com/books?id=temrIuqQKhwC&pg=PA269#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's entry #35 on page 269.

That coin has a Lamba, unlike the coins you mention with XEP and KPI.  No illustration.

[Dino]

I think you are right.  Here is the Berlin Catalog for a coin matching the photo:

http://books.google.com/books?id=temrIuqQKhwC&pg=PA269#v=onepage&q&f=false

It's entry #35 on page 269.

That coin has a Lamba, unlike the coins you mention with XEP and KPI.  No illustration.

Yes, that coin seems to match with the 

Am I reading it correctly that it's Madytus on the Thracian Hellespont, CHERSONESUS?

And good work by the way.  On finding the coin and on the website where I found the initial reference 

[esnible]

It's not Madytus.  It is the second-to-last coin in the catalog from Lysimachia.

Here are two others, also without photo:
http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.16606
http://numismatics.org/collection/1944.100.16607

[Dino]

Ok.  That makes much more sense.

[casata137ec]

Thanks to the both of you!

So should this be attributed as: ANS 1944.100.16606, 1944.100.16607; Konigliche Museen zu Berlin,
Beschreibung der Antiken Munzen pg 269, #35 (with everything else I have already pieced together as is)?

Chris

[Dino]

Yep.

[casata137ec]

Thanks again...another mystery put to rest!

Chris