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Author Topic: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!  (Read 76555 times)

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Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2010, 03:31:32 pm »
Wonderful errors but as far as I'm concerned this is the best of the Septimius errors.  You see it clearly reads SPQR OPTIMO PBINCIPI but the misspelled version is many times more common than the correct one SPQR OPTIMO PRINCIPI.

Many sellers don't even bother noting it.  They usually miss mentioning the version with the claw hand rather than holding the staff, too.  How many dies are there both ways?  When does an error become correct by common usage?  I ain't got no idea.

Offline Danny S. Jones

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2010, 03:37:23 pm »
A variation in writing style perhaps? or illiterate die engravers, just copying an error from a previous die?

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2010, 03:44:22 pm »
Very interesting case!

Offline dougsmit

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2010, 03:45:22 pm »
Wouldn't you think just once in a while they would have written SPQB?

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2010, 03:56:05 pm »
In the same situation, I have an extremely rare coin with only 2 specimen know (both from same die) with SECVETIAS PERPETVA form Antioch second issue of Gordian III. the SECVRITAS PERPETVA don't exist, I think the error is volunteer of the die engraver to see clearly the differences between Roma and Antioch, because if the writing was SECVRITAS , the type should be the onlmy one with exactly same reverse than in Roma


Offline Gert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2010, 07:03:51 am »
Great idea, Tibsi. I used to collect these. One of my favorite engraving errors is rather a design error by Greek engravers who found the Roman preoccupance with personifications rather confusing. Especially Libertas and Liberalitas were confused on coins, as seen below: the legend of these Antioch mint coins have Libertas paired with legend LIBERALITAS and vice versa.
Regards
Gert

Offline Gert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2010, 07:06:54 am »
And another Antioch mint coin with a personification of Truth (or is it?)
VERITAS AVG
should be: VBERITAS AVG.
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Gert

Offline Gert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2010, 07:09:56 am »
And a rather rare engraving error on a follis of Diocletian:
IMP DIOCLELTIANVS P AVG
Should of course read DIOCLETIANVS

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Gert

Offline Gert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2010, 07:12:48 am »
And a provincial engraving error. Once again a mistake due to engraving Latin legends with a Greek mother tongue. The emperor Gordian's name is spelled with a Greek rho: GOPDIANVS.
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Gert

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2010, 07:21:00 am »
Great coins!

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2010, 07:31:47 am »
Gert,

Which one are the correct version on roman coins? LIBERTAS or LIBERALITAS? Is the 2nd?

Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2010, 08:08:39 am »
I think both are wrong!

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Offline leseullunique

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2010, 10:40:02 am »
Dear Gert, Even if the LIBERALITAS AVG shoud have an abacus, all the LIBARALITAS AVG of ANtioch minted during Gordian's reign have the Libertas representation. Only the LIBERALITAS AVG II (2 specimens known, see the mine below) have the good representation.

In his thesis, Roger Bland did refer 39 coins of this type strucked with 22 different reverse dies.

The 2 LIBERALITAS AVG II are from different dies, the second is from the so called "Baldwin's hoard" from Romania (318 coins from a biggest hoard purchased by Baldwin's in 1982 within 122 Gordian's coins)


Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2010, 11:13:13 am »
I'm have a Gordian anto from Antiochia with LIBERALITAS AVG. Is this OK?

Offline Jochen

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2010, 11:33:27 am »
It's ok for this thread because the depicted figure is not Liberalitas but Libertas with pileus.

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Offline byzancia

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #40 on: August 09, 2010, 11:07:47 am »
PORBI and VIRVS are so great!!!!

AETETNITAS AVG
original is AETERNITAS AVG

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #41 on: August 09, 2010, 03:55:26 pm »
Great coin!

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #42 on: August 20, 2010, 04:46:41 am »
Here is my Philippus I. anto with interesting 'R' on reverse. It looks like an 'A' letter.
This piece: PAX AETEAN
Original: PAX AETERN

Offline leseullunique

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #43 on: August 20, 2010, 10:05:30 am »
I just bought this one here on forum,

It seems than the G of AVG at the end of the obverse is missing...

Offline Christophe O

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2010, 05:23:28 pm »
Hi ! Here is an interesting error of Philip I. on the reverse side :
Antioch.
IMP M IVL PHILIPPVS AVG
AEQVTAS AVGG

Offline Tibsi

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2010, 02:44:49 am »
Wow! Great!

Offline Rupert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #46 on: August 25, 2010, 08:20:20 pm »
Here's another AEQUTAS antoninianus from Antioch, this time for Volusianus (RIC 225var.). Interestingly, some years later when Macrianus and Quietus struck their coins (wasn't it at Antioch too?), ALL their coins of Aequitas types (Göbl 1727) read AEQUTAS.

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Rupert
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Offline Rupert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #47 on: August 26, 2010, 11:06:51 am »
People in Antioch spoke Greek in everyday life. I think this is a systematic error, maybe due to the kind of Latin that they spoke when they had to. Maybe they spoke "aequus" (=just, even, equal) like "aecus" and therefore "aequitas" like "aecutas", or rather "aec'tas", with the u being a very short binding vowel. So the I might just not have appeared in their pronunciation and therefore have been forgotten in the coin dies.
A similar systematic error appears on the very first coins of Postumus. On the very short first emission the legend is invariably "IMP C M CASS LAT POSTIMUS PF AUG". We may conclude that the engraver had only HEARD but never READ the new emperor's name, and that the name was surely not pronounced PostOOOmus! Certainly not PostEEEmus either, but the first U must have been an equally weak binding vowel, and the pronunciation will have been something like "Post'mus". After a few dies the legend was shortened, and the spelling corrected to Postumus. My first emission antoninian is not really in bad condition, but was struck from very worn dies; yet the POSTIMUS is well discernible.

Rupert
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Offline curtislclay

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #48 on: August 26, 2010, 11:25:28 am »
I would hesitate to draw conclusions about pronounciation from the error POSTIMVS. Surely there are other ways the error could have come about than because of a supposed oral transmission of the name.
Curtis Clay

Offline Rupert

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Re: Let's collect the coins with legend errors here!
« Reply #49 on: August 26, 2010, 07:22:30 pm »
All right, Curtis, of course I'm conjecturing here. You are right to state that "We may conclude that..." is somewhat grandiose speaking from my side. I admit that it was just the first plausible explanation that came to my mind considering the fact that the whole first emission (short but from more than one die) has this same spelling error.

Now let's leave speculations aside and revert to a plain spelling error. Here's a coin that I've owned for more than twenty-five years now, an Augustus as of the moneyer C. Gallius Lupercus, RIC 379. The interesting thing here is the spelling "(TRIBUNIC PO)TEST CASAR AUGUSTUS" instead of CAESAR. The strike is sloppy but the weight is normal at 10.11 g. It will be hard to decide whether or not this coin is official.

Rupert
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